Friday, February 15, 2013

Ten Ways to Freedom from Narcissists

November 3, 2009

Once in a while, someone writes to me for advice. I do not counsel over the net. But the issues that come up are usually the same ones over and over again because disordered machinations are predictably similar.

The following are all steps that I took to free myself from psychoguy's poisonous grasp. It very important to understand that the moves narcissists and psychopaths use change our brain chemistry over time. It is brainwashing. Therefore, the only effective way to free oneself of the narcissist's influence is through deprogramming.

I only dealt with psychoguy on the internet, but he did the same kind of "love bombing" that I am sure many of those victimised by narcissists experience. In real life, a girlfriend who turned out to be a narcissist thought the world of me, came to me for advice, and would do anything for me; she was so like me, and so perfect until the cracks began to show. They cannot keep up the facade for very long. But they are masters, if you don't know better, at getting you hooked.

This feeling of "love" that we have is more intense than normal because first they flood you with expressions of love and then they withhold and then they give a little, and over time this changes our brain chemistry- it's a form of manipulation, control and brainwashing.

There is no doubt that we have loved. It's just that narcissists can't love you back. And there is no doubt that it is not a good idea to depend on the strength of your feeling for a narcissist, but to listen to your gut. What happens with these types is that we get so caught up in the feeling and don't listen to the alarms and red flags that usually guide our way.

1. Educate Yourself
The most important thing you need to do is learn everything you can about the disordered and how they operate. You must educate yourself. Repeat and repeat and repeat. Unless you educate yourself you will never be free of their toxic enmeshment. Because they don't think and feel as we do, we cannot treat them like we do "normal" people/ourselves. Nor is it any use feeling sorry for them when you are trapped with them because they will simply use all your feeling against you. You need to harden your heart in order to see very clearly what you are dealing with.

2. Observe and Trust Your Gut
Distinguish between what is feeling in yourself and your gut instinct, and switch to trusting your gut. You are in poor physical and emotional and mental health because you are struggling to
understand behaviour that on the surface contradicts the words.

Never listen to words. Observe the behaviour. It is by behaviour that we really know people. Words are just a con job. You are worn out and sick because your psyche and body are telling you there is something terribly wrong when there is an illusion of everything being right (because s/he tells you so) and this is a very hard thing to accept. If it feels wrong, it is wrong. Be a scientist. Silently observe what is really happening.

3. Stay Out of Their Head
Get back inside your own where you belong. It's a mindfulness thing. Watch how hard that is because they've trained you well. Don't try to figure out what they're up to, what's in their mind, or second guess them. Getting into their head means trying to figure out their motives, trying to make excuses for them, trying to rationalise their behaviour, trying to manipulate them, and especially getting sucked into the content.

When you catch yourself, wrench yourself away from it and think about something else. I used to use a Hebrew blessing as a mantra when my mind wandered into poisonous realms. This is a challenge because it takes a huge force of will to do this and goes against all the training they gave you to ensure that they take up all the space inside your head.

4. Ignore Content
There is no content for narcissists except the kind that will suck you in. I had to train myself to ignore the content. It's not a question of belief or disbelief. It's about tearing yourself away from everything being about them during all your waking hours and probably your dreams.

Do not listen to or give importance to the content of what narcissists say. It is their way of sucking you into their world and keeping you there, a world of total mindfuck where you always end up the bad guy. They don't make common sense and keep moving the boundaries and goalposts to keep you destabilised.

Listening to the content stresses your cognitive functioning- it is crazymaking. Know that whatever they say has something in it for them, no matter how reasonable or wonderful it seems. It is all about them and they want you to be all about them as well and they will do and say anything to you to keep you trapped in their little dream world. Instead, observe what they are doing.

5. Protect Your Assets.
If need be, squirrel away money. They will bleed you dry. Protect anything that is precious to you. If you think about being fair and noble, you might be left destitute.

6. Silence is Golden
It is natural to want to share yourself with your soulmate. But you do not have a soulmate; you have a narcissist pretending to be a soulmate. Resist the temptation to tell them everything you think and feel. You cannot move them. They will use it against you. The more open you are, the more artillery they have. They love for you to share. If you need to say anything, either dissemble or be vague or neutral or change the subject. Everyone has ways to withhold, so use your particular way to protect yourself.

7. Who Are You?
Know what you stand for and know what you are willing to live and die for. Or anyone can persuade you of anything. Without knowing yourself, you have few boundaries about what you are willing or not willing to tolerate. Strengthen that belief system and set of values that you cherish. Then you will know what to do and how to act and not waver.

8. It's a Marathon
Keep observing and reading. Once you learn what manipulative tricks they can use, you will observe them happening. This is a huge reinforcement for you, a way of deprogramming from the illusion of great, soulful love or familial love or friendly love they have set up for you. This does not happen overnight. It's a long distance goal. Be kind to yourself and patient. You are learning new ways to act in the world and redefining yourself and your beliefs, especially about people and relationships. Give yourself time to deal with all that's happening. Nothing will change overnight. It's a marathon.

9. Get Support
Anyone dealing intimately with the disordered is going to be emotionally and mentally abused. It's important to have support whether it is a good friend, a counsellor, a group for the abused, even the internet though that is a more dangerous undertaking and not one I recommend. Along with support, the most important thing is to start to get back your health and your sanity with small things that give you pleasure or joy or peace. We all have something we love to do.

I would also recommend that if you seek counselling that you find someone in your area that deals with trauma and/or abuse. Do not try this over the internet or by phone. In addition, do not buy e-books that invariably are self-published, because they don't answer to any mental health, ethical or professional standard; charlatans/narcissists abound on the net.

10. Nurture Your Soul
Once in a while, do some small kind thing for someone that will make their day. Do it anonymously and quietly. Say something complimentary to someone, even a stranger. Make one of your little dreams come true, for yourself. Get back in touch with your religion if you have a faith. Breathe in the fresh air and know that one day you will be free and life will be so much better.

I cannot stress enough that educating yourself is the only way to get your self and your life back. From there, everything else follows.

~ © InvictaMA 2009-2013

130 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this advice. I lived with a narcissist for eight years. He displayed all the manipulative behaviours you list. It nearly destroyed my sense of self.

I left for 10 months, and we kept in occasional contact. I was distressed at the break up, lost 14lbs in weight and became depressed. He thrived.

Just when I thought I would not hear from him again, he would phone me, or drop by my house. I would say he was always a 'teaser'. This keeps you hooked in and unable to move on.

This behaviour of his coincided (inevitably) with a particularly bad day of mine. We became intimate again, but I did not move in with him. Words spoken implied we would have another go at living together, but my gut feeling told me he did not want me back full time.

He brought a young female employee home to 'help' with a project. It was obvious she was attracted to him.

He's away on business this last week, and although he made a great fuss of getting hold of my new cellphone number, he does not use it. He's phoned me twice on my landline - when I was out - leaving curt, enigmatic messages, and saying, 'well I hope to see you soon'. Vague. Keeps my mind fuddled. What's going on?

In the past week I placed a bid on a house thirty miles away. The purchase should be through in around 8 weeks. It's the only way of getting away from him. It's the only way of stopping myself from seeing him.

Anonymous said...

I dated a man for 3 years who I am still trying to figure out. He seemed like a humble,honest, sincere man. He had been divorced for several years, yet would secretly email, call and visit his ex-wife. When asked, he would lie about this and assure me that although they were still friends, and would email occasionally, she has happy for him. He assured me that she would never interfere in our relationship. Yet when I finally searched through his emails, I saw emails from her asking him why he hadn't called in 2 weeks. Asking him to come visit the dog, or come over for dinner. She would email him her nieces' soccer schedules. He would never take me to her nieces soccer games, or to her house to visit the dog, because I would make everyone uncomfortable. He still exchanged Christmas presents with his ex and call on her birthday or their anniversary. She would call and ask him to go with her to take the dog to the vet. Yet she never wanted anything to do with me. He would tell me that when the would talk (several times a week, sometimes the calls lasting over an hour)that she would never want him to mention my name. He said he understood this. Yet, often he would want to tell me stories of her, and if this made me uncomfortable he would tell me that he had to walk on egg shells around me. He would say that he wanted to be comfortable around me enough to talk about his past, and his past included his ex. I once saw an email where he told her that when he was with me he felt that he was being unfaithful to her. She emailed him once after getting back from the beach with her boyfriend, telling him that she thought about him the whole time she was with her boyfriend. He pleaded with me once to understand their relationship, saying that their divorce was all his fault, and he felt lucky that she even talked to him. He also told me that he didn't want to stop visiting her becasue when he did, she was excited to see him, the dog was excited to see hm, and her parents would come over from across the street and be excited to see him. He said he didn't want to give that up. Another puzzle to me was that when he was married to her he frequented married but looking chat rooms. He had an affair with a woman he met on the internet. This seemed so different from who he was with me. I couldn't even imagine him doing this. Yet, when we broke up, (because he wanted to call and visit his ex and I couldn't handle this) I later found out that he called as many as 5 prostitutes in a 5 month time. I also found profiles he had on sex sites. While we dated, if I would get upset around him, I could never cry. If I did he would get uncomfortable and ask me to leave. I have left his house many times in tears. He would rarely comfort me. He would just get angry. Does any of this seem like narcissism? Could he be a narcissist and accept all the blame for his divorce? Is it possible his ex wife was the narcissist and he is a codependent? He protects her, never admitting she has any faults. It was a very strange relationship to be in.

Anonymous said...

Well, I just left my N yesterday. He actually broke up with me...and now he keeps calling my office and my cell phone but won't leave a message. I know IN MY GUT, like it states that this the wrong man for me on so many levels. I feel it in every part of my being. It's so freaky how I have such a hard time letting go. I know my mother had the same issue with my father who was an N. I don't want to die miserable like she did...she never left him and died an sad lonely miserable life, never having made it out from under his rule. I feel like my N is just a repetition of my dad. It's so psychologically messed up. I just want to run away so he can't find me.
This site has helped me start to get things into focus. I shared this with my 21 year old daughter so she doesn't think I'm a nut job and really can see that this is something soooo difficult to break away from. I've shared this link with my friends so they understand as well. Hopefully I can dig myself out of this rut and move on with my life. I'm so emotionally and physically drained. I'm sad, tired and worn out. I feel like I was hit by a bus. Please tell me it gets better....

I'll keep reading and studying and getting stronger. It just sucks because I WAS a very strong woman.
Hopefully, one day I will be again.

Anonymous said...

thanyou. Seven years ago I made the most craziest decision of my life. It was like stepping off a cliff into an abyss of despair. It was both intoxicating and desctructive and I thought it was REAL. In that decision I destroyed my marriage, my family and my friendships and I still mourn those losses. I can never make up to those people I have hurt. I have spent a long time going over why. K was so convincing, so charming, his favourite words were we were "an us project". However, there was no US, just him. I was blamed for his anger, his lies, his drinking, his physical abuse, his sexual infidelities. I was humiliated repeatedly. and I continued to allow him to do so. And each time my heart and soul just became blacker and blacker, until I had no idea who I was, where i was going, what I beleived in and what my values were. And that's when he went in for the kill and cut me off, with no explanation. The last contact I had with him was when he screamed at me on the phone for being stupid for my loss of him. I was told that I could have been enjoying the fruits of his "success" but I had let him down, I had not understood him, I had betrayed him. It was at that moment that the shadow of darkness finally eclipsed my heart. I know on some level that the shadow will pass and that the light will re-emerge. Just as I know that the sun will come up tommorrow. But I also know that I will have to live with the scar. I know that I own my own pain and hurt. I also know that I don't and never can own or even undertand his pain. I still go over and over the events of the last years. I used to think, "how could this have happened?" But it did. This has been the greatest learning experience of my life. I can only take each day at a time. Once again thankyou.

Anonymous said...

Wow ! Every word I have been reading sounds very much like myself with a (N) stamped on me for the last ten years. I too have been reading everything on the net to get stronger because the time has come to leave. Not long ago a local policeman asked how did you know the pattern..."Simple, my gut hurt everyday with each lie he told..
I have been nothing more then a caregiver who is just plain worn out by this childish monster who takes pleasure in looking in my eyes as he lies over and over. I think for women this type of abuse is none other then a savage rape of the mind,soul, and body.
I think after knowing and living under their weird ways we should be able to brand them as animals with a giant "N" to warn others
before losing themselves in this.
(Okay maybe a little harsh..or is it?) Nah !!! :):)

Anonymous said...

Please can someone offer me some help and advice. I have been married for 31 years. My mother in law has always been a nightmare and I now realise she is NPD - no question at all.

When I met him, I loved him but knew then he had an inferiority complex but of course believed I could help. I did - but as he grew more confident (outwardly at least) he became harder to like and I saw more and more behaviour similar to his mother's.

I always used to say that I believed he did not love me because he did not seem able to recognise or consider my feelings......

Things came to a head last year when he started an affair - and told her she was the love of his life, his soulmate etc - he was just as bad as his mother ever could be.

Once the affair came to light, I also found out that he had asked his mother for advice and she told him that he needed to do what he needed to keep him happy - that was all that mattered. She also told him that his sister (who lives abroad) had had five affairs - and only stayed with her husband cos she could not afford to live without his income.

His mother always hated me (because although I did not know the term I certainly saw through her behaviours and refused to play) so was delighted to see the back of me.

Surprisingly to everyone, including and especially me, I have so far stayed with him. I tried at first to find a way to keep his mother in our lives - only because the alternative seemed very drastic - but soon realised I could not continue to live a life in which she played a part.

This woman is a textbook case - her sister was in intensive care in hospital earlier for three months - it was touch and go. He spoke to his mother in the middle of this and she said 'You know it's not right - I know she is in intensive care and she might die - but I am 81 and I have a heart condition (she is fine) and no one cares about me.'

I guess I hoped that if her constant presence was gone (he spoke to her about three or four times a week and always tried to keep her happy) that he might be able to change. Now I read about things I wonder if I am kidding myself as, in truth, so much of his behaviour is narcissistic.

He has read a bit about it, acknowledges that some of it (but not all) describes him, and says he will go for therapy. Would I be a fool to try or should I cut and run?

He needs me because we run a business - he no longer has a controlling share because I made him sign it over to the kids. Without me he would have no job and no kudos and I know that.

Am I damaged? Well, my mother, brother and a son are autistic, and I did not have the easiest upbringing, but I turned my son around to a large degree - he is doing very well. But I was a victim of my mum and I do try very hard to please everyone. And in the past, pleasing him led to good rewards.

I am intelligent and I am a great observer - although I did not realise what NPD was I did recognise most of the behaviours. I want the rest of my life to be good. Do I work on him and force changes sufficient enough to please me (is it even possible?) or do I cut and run?

The interesting thing is that since the affair, his mother has been behaving more and more badly -she refuses to accept she was wrong to encourage his affair, and refuses to apologise to me for some of the hateful things she did and continues to try to do to me. He now says he understands how awful she has been to me throughout my marriage and has not spoken to her for six months - is quite content never to speak to her again. This from a man who sent her flowers all the time, and made my life a misery at times to keep her happy. He can just switch her out of his life.

Whilst I am delighted he has done this it does make me feel that he could do it to me too - but am I being unfair.

I have always believed I love this man but I am open to questioning this belief for all the obvious reasons. I just want someone who knows about this to tell me if they think it is worth trying to make him change for good.

Thanks

Invicta said...

Anonymous Dec 9- I am guessing you are afraid to trust your gut, listen to that still, small, nagging voice. After so many years it is understandable, but you haven't lost that capacity as your post shows.

No one can advise you on your choices. That's where your own instincts and trust of those instincts come in. The only thing I would add is that you cannot change anyone or their behaviour; at best, it always ends up badly. And if someone is a narcissist, they will only change on the surface because there's something in it for them.

I think that it would be helpful for you to see a counsellor to sort out your confusion, as a start. You are already on the right track, in seeing red flags. It's just dread inducing to have to look them squarely in the face. But that's what it takes, especially because you long for a much better life from yourself, one that you deserve. It's very important to keep educating yourself so that you can make informed choices.

I would also add that it's important for you to protect yourself financially by whatever means that you are comfortable with.

Anonymous said...

These stories are amazing due to the fact that we are all survivors in a sense.

My mother is a narcissist and while growing up I was always blamed for what ever went wrong in her life whether it was the death of my cancer ridden father or her failed relationships with her alcoholic boyfriends. I have even been blamed for her tenant’s abusive behavior towards his wife. Whom I don’t even know.“???”

I received an organ transplant about ten years ago and my mother managed to make it about her self by telling me in my hospital bed after my operation that I had to “stop asking her for anything because it’s making her very nervous and that she is very sick with diabetes.” I was only asking her for a cup.

I decided to cut all ties from my mother about four months ago and I haven’t been hospitalized nor depressed during that time. Unfortunately I had to have some contact with her and not surprisingly guess who’s sick again? My hair is falling out and I’ve just been physically sick.

My son moved in with her a few years ago and he started acting out and became a full blown alcoholic at the age of twenty two. Now he’s twenty three and decided to move back home for support and he went from having the shakes, to gaining weight to week end partying. I am hoping that he just stops drinking completely. I realized that my mother had a lot to do with his addiction/destruction since she has been enabling him since he was a small child by going against my rules and his father’s rules. “We would say no! and she would say yes.”

What I don’t understand is how some one could have such power. Well all I wish for her is nothing but NOTHING!!! I realized through therapy and reflection that my mother is not that important especially when she is a destructor of the human soul. I’ve been fighting for forty free years to not loose my self. Time has come that I stop fighting and start living. I’ve never had the relationship I always wanted as a daughter so why even continue to bother or duel over it.

Free at last!!!

Anonymous said...

I have written before and also value the comments of others. I would like to add this... One of the many things I have realised in my relationshop with K was that as a result of his inability to reflect a core sense of himself, the only mirror image I saw was mine, pure and raw. I saw things in myself that I could only have seen given this opportunity. And what I saw I didn't like. I mourned the loss of who I thought I was and with that came great sadness. I thought I was mourning the loss of things external to me (such as my marriage, my financial security, the love of my children, my family, my relationship) when what I was really grieving for was the loss of my sense of self and who I was. The angst for me was that I was still alive and being, (not dead) and I had to somehow carry one knowing that I was the only person who could take responsibility for my loss. It was a hard and lonely realisation that no one but me could fix. I couldn't pass the buck.. I had to grow up very fast... or else sink.. I chose to swim upstream and am still swimming. I take heart in the fact that had I not experienced such grief, I would never have had the opportunity to grow emotionally. I see the whole experience as something that had to happen to allow me to grow towards being whole, to establish boundaries that I had never had (or never taken or allowed myself to take). I see my experiences with K as a life saving opportunity. Do others feel the same???

Curlygrrrl said...

I am just now beginning to see my experience with N as a learning experience. I too felt grief at the loss of self (when I finally realized that that's what I was mourning - after the anger and rage at him). It was so difficult to finally realize that someone who is so charming and smart could be so vacant. I spent almost 2 years with him - (living together for 1) and watched my self slowly evaporate. It was so subtle that I didn't realize the extent of it. I still can't tell you the exact moment that it happened - but it was ever so slight - and it always made me question myself. Before I realized it - I was taking care of the entire house and pets and yard and bills and laundry and shopping - while working full time and being in graduate school. Huh?? Who is this woman?? After the break up - I learned that I was not the only woman in his life. I was completely heartbroken. I went into counseling and figured out my 'stuff' and why I let myself ignore red flags (i.e. not returning calls for 3 days, getting REALLY angry when I invited him to dinner and then paid the bill, pouting when I went out with friends). So now...2 years later - I am finally just beginning to feel the learning. But it still gets to me sometimes. Thank you all for sharing your stories.

Anonymous said...

This has been very comforting to read. My story is a little different in that I WORK for an N in a very small office where she rules over the entire kingdom. Although I am currently looking for a new job, it has been three years of evil. My doctor is putting my on medication for high bloodpressue and my confidence as a professional has almost completely eroded away. I am unhappy at home and have begun to hate my life - all the while feelng trapped and guilty for feeling like I am failing at my job.

I am now able to see the twisted ways in which my boss manipulates and splits people. Due to my high level position and the small size of our office, I have been able to develope a whole sub-world at work, of which she is ultimately unaware (but suspects). I think she truly believes that I am not smart enough to outsmart her. She is abusive, demeaning and rude. Those that work for her (at leAst those who stay around long enough) detest her and what she stands for. However, it is an exhausting game - and I want my life back. I want myself back! Nobody really beleives how evil, truly sick, this woman is, because she is soooo good at her game, and it has worked for her in her career - or at least she believes so!

The most difficult thing is that I have always been a hardworking committed employee my entire life. It is impossible to "not listen" to her, because she is my boss! I am mid-career and questioning everything about myself, even though I know it is HER. I have lost the love of working and am dreading the subtle evil backlash once I am able to give my notice and escape this prison. And, I am angry that I have to leave and feel guilty for abandoning my responsibilities to those who work for me! But, I need to start living again.

Anonymous said...

After 12 months of grieving and soul searching, many tears and much anger, I thought I had finally put K to rest. I thought that I had made myself stronger. On New Years Eve he phoned me and told me that he missed me and loved me. My reactions were mixed. Did he want me back? Had he gained some insight? Was he lying again? Could I trust him? Why now? I waited to respond to his txt and then he phoned me two days later. At first I was calm and rational. And then I felt my heart turn - it was like a key turned in a lock and I felt an immediate emotional pull back. I got angry, I apologised and hung up as I was in tears and could not deal with my emotion. I left it at that, went about my business and hoped that it would go away. Later that same day he started the txts, he wanted to see me, hold me etc etc etc... I took the bait for a while and then for some reason survival set in and I said no. I slept that night in pain, had awful dreams of rejection and woke in pain, like I had been hit with a sledgehammer. I went for a long walk hoping to walk off the agony. It got too much for me and I sent him some emails. I haven't heard back and I don't suppose I will until the next time he is feeling lonely, wants a bedmate and someone to dump on. I am annoyed at myself for being so weak. I feel like I am a drug addict - like I make a resolve to abstain and then get tempted and go back to the habit, whilst at the same time hating myself for my weakness. I hope that someday I will eventually be able to say no, mean it and never return. But in the process I doubt myself. I doubt that I can ever have a normal relationship with a man, that I can ever trust again. Do others feel the same or am I just a complete idiot?

shacri said...

To Anonymous above me... I feel the EXACT same way about my ex "N". He is my drug and withdrawal is sometimes too painful to bear. I'm waiting for my "I miss you" text, it always comes a couple of months after we break up. I have already planned and written down what I will reply with. HOPEFULLY I will be able to follow through. I've been living this cycle for almost 5 years and enough is enough!!

Anonymous said...

After reading these postings I want to share with you my story..
I feel stupid dumb and find myself wanting revenge... I am 58 I divorced when I 55 I knew something was wrong with my husband, You don't like women, you only want me for my money I would find myself saying... 18 years being dumb... wanting to love trying to make him happy lifting him from his depression feeling sorry for him , his mother was a bitch his ex the same.. I was different so I went out to prove it over 18 years.
I made myself so sick I knew if I didn't do something I would die...Divorce and three years of it while he made himself look the victim.. I gave him the business the house contents and paid of his bills with the money made from selling my house... FOOL .

Three years of healing reading and trying to understand psycopath misoginysts, ( they don't have spell check on this) I came to understand it was him...
WHAT I DIDN'T DO was read up on Narcissists... As you have guessed this sexy man walked into my life I wanted a man who would not embarress me in public I wanted a man who didn't need me to look after him...
FOOL I moved to be near this man I bought a house that needed fixing up... He said he would help me.. I moved and within 3 weeks I found one of his women, I needed him to help with the house I had no one I knew no one...
Help with the house NO he charged me $25.00 an hour... He would go off to the USA from Canada to help another "friend" who turned out to be a girlfriend of 2.5 years.. HE had 3 other women on the go.. I was stuck I needed him to help with this house ... I had the red flags going off but I knew he was different to my ex.
WHAT was it.. Commitment phobic nooo he didn't fit that I .
I HAD MISSED the one thing Narcissist I have read and read over and over to try and heal the devistation placed on my life.. STUPID angry yeh's I feel them I want revenge... He Lives a lie we should start a list of these people's names to warn others never in my life did so much hurt in less than one year be handed to me... Dennis Fahey is a name that will go down in history a list of the women he has hurt should be posted.. He likes them drunk they need him he can't sleep on his own. Anyone will do as long as its on his terms... His saying are " good enough" meaning no more. Ohh yes he has a swimming pool he uses to catch his fish... One thing in all this I keep away from men who are quiet . I keep away from people who have addictions, most of them have one... Remember if you find yourself giving excuses to yourself when someone is making you feel like shit... MOVE ON. Remember we are protecting these guys so they can hurt others.

Anonymous said...

I am reading all your comments and hearing hurt, anger, sadness, betrayal.. a whole range of emotions. And the continual questions, "How did this happen to me?" One thing I have realised in my attempts to get over my N. There are some people who meet a bully and when the bully tries to manipulate, abuse, humiliate them, they read the signals, make a survival decision and just tell the bully to go jump. Usually, I would do the same thing - I have been known for my forthrightness, my sense of fairplay and my ability to call a spade a spade. However, when my N bully came along, I didn't react that way, despite reading the signals. I took the bait, hook line and sinker. Why? Well I think that at the time, my confidence was low, my self-esteem was drowning and I wanted so much for someone to love me. I wanted it so much that I was prepared to take all the awful things just so I could feel what I beleived was a sense of love. As my N started to change and become abusive and withdrawing, my need for that love was so strong I continued to chase it - the faster I ran towards it, the faster I could see that love disappearing.I became so fearful of feeling emptiness again. I kept thinking and hoping that he would just say he was sorry. That he would acknowledge my hurt. Even on the rare occasion when he said he was sorry, my response was "I don't believe you" You see, I had trapped myself in a no win situation. I wwas asking for verification of something that I could never achieve. - whatever he said (regardless of whether it was true of not) I was tortured by the decision to believe or not beleive. And I mean tortured!!! (sleepless nights, staying at home for days, feeling anxious, memory lapses). I am still to this day trapped within that indecision. But there is no answer to that. No matter what he says, I will not believe him. So why do I keep chasing it and going over and over it? Because I am still chasing that need to be needed, acknowledged and important to someone. When will I begin to realise that the only person who needs to think that I am important is ME. When will I get off the neediness treadmill and start taking responsibility for how I feel? But I can also ask, How long is a piece of string?

Invicta said...

@Anonymous Jan 8/10 3.48:

Your "neediness" is entirely another issue if you believe that is what is "wrong" with you. There is a lot of pop psychology out there that fits with your thinking that has nothing to do with what is discussed here.

If you have read much of this site, you will see that it deals exclusively and specifically with the dynamics, effects and recovery from encounters with the personality disordered or traits, especially narcissists and psychopaths. If you cannot yet understand or separate what you feel are your personal issues from the issues specific to the signature brainwashing and abuse by the character disordered, then you are missing the point of this site.

There are plenty of other sites which will aid you in believing that it's all your fault and implicitly, the fault of every survivor.

Blaming oneself, IMO, is the easy way out.

Cindy said...

I have read so many internet posts and books on this subject, but this list is the most helpful thing I have read by far! I used to get sucked into his head all the time. Now I catch myself and feel like the smiling buddha. I shut my mouth and feel like a child with a secret. I say to myself - I can chose this and keep arguing or I can chose peace, and keep silent.

Thanks for sharing your insights with us.

Anonymous said...

I need to say thankyou......i have been married to a narcissist for nearly 8 years and i never knew.I have been feeling like i was going mad i was the bad wife,the horrible women...Even though i knew and felt that i was a good women and good wife.My husband displayed all the behaviours i have read on your site.He would leave come back blame me,say he loves me soo much then walk away and not be contactable.I would be left thinking what the.....Then he would come back charm and blame me again and again....for 8 years this has happened.He partied and I was left to deal with his coming and goings and to raise our family (we have 6 children) and now i can see who he is.I can now get on with trying to overcome the train wreck of a life and finally free my self from this marriage of hell,lies and sadness.

Anonymous said...

**Well this is amazing to me, how much I have learned from your site.Thumbs up to you for all of your love and interest in helping others.My n ask me out for a date at age 14, and he was 17.I am 45 now and we just had our 28th anniversary.I moved out in 2003,2006, and then again in 2008 and filed for divorce.Best thing I ever did for myself.I had emergency surgery, and boy did that open chances for him to trick me again.I just started researching narcisissm 6 months ago, and it has been so unreal to reolize this thing that I have been experiencing has a name!!!My sons are grown 21 and 28, they both have been effected by him ,my 21 years old isolates himself away from him, they actually figured it out before I did, that there was something VERY WRONG with him.I always take the blame for his lies,responsibilties, you name it.I was trying to ssave him from somthing I have no control over. My big brother once said to me, 'ARE YOU GOING TO WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE 50 YEARS OLD TO GET YOUR LIFE BACK'?I am only 5 years away from his comment.It is too overwhelming to even explain what he does to me, basicly its like a drug, we have been re programed to suit them.They suck the life and love right out of us. I have learned to recognise his tacktics and tricks.I am still living here,I have been back for over a year, I lost my job in the medical field when his sister in law e-mailed lies to my boss.As you know he denied any involvement.I took care of him may 08-sep 08 after he broke his leg.i WAS ALREADY MAKING MY GET AWAY PLAN FOR A YEAR BEFORE THAT.I am not a fool anymore, because I know I can not be a victim anymore.What kind of an example am I setting for my boys?My counsler says.They follow your lead.my youngest son says I live in fear, and I do.Every time I get out, he draws me back in.Although I was so strong, he broke be down.I am her to tell you that you can overcome this n, it is a hard road.The song BEAT IT by michael jackson is a real pick up.I have alot to learn, but afer the abuse mental,physical the first 5 years, until my brother found out.I was 3 mo along with my 21 yr old, and he had me by my wrist facing him biting his toungh, and raising his knee to my stomache. I stepped back so he would miss my stomache. next day my mom drove 1000 miles from up north to get me out of there.went to my brothers to stay, he came around and my brother threatened him, and he never touched me again all these years he has just switched it to n control, very emotional.As for me being a lover of people, that made it easier for him, harder for me. I will comment again when I get out. He has riped me clean of my life,job,joy,love,self respect,my singing career.I am working daily to get it all back, so if you are reading this and you can relate, do not give up on yourself.Life is worth living!!!I am lonely,sad,depressed, but all in all I am learning so much on healing, and strength,wisdom is so important.I heard you have to just cut them off like an unwanted mole.Then forget about it and move on.My standards are much higher now in any man that I would choose.There is life after n.from florida

Anonymous said...

**Well here is an example of a trap.I know I should not be going into his head,wasting time figuring it out.With all the ones I have resisted,I Just could'nt help my self,he did'nt know.See I am trained in my brain to justify,even my actions!!I went into his phone just to see what he was doing, I called this strang ph # and to my surprise it was a florist!!Now he is setting me upi for a delivery 2 weeks ahead,he wants to wow me!! Does'nt work with me anymore,I have had the limo and everything,trust me.So if its not for me than I will find out soon enouph.I figure if it is for me, than its only to wow me when he is out with his friends partying, then how could I be mad at him?thats what he thinks.I have learned so much in the last 6 months.I've got his number...so to speak LOL

Anonymous said...

**Can we reply to comments on here??I see that some have had a boss that is an N.I think I have other N people in my life too.It is so sad for me,I have spent all of my adult life with my N.I am moving on, just have to focus on me finally, and do not feel sorry for him.I have the co dependency personality also, so I have it bad.Trying to address that as well.I feel bad for my sons,my 28 year old ran away from home at age 15.Then later he told me why,he could'nt take his dad anymore.He was into their life until they reached age 5 or so.just when they started developing a relationship with me.He is still so jelious of them, its sick.He says I am a bad mom for being so good to them growing up,well someone had to fill in the gaps from his lack of responsibility.Now he refuses to help guide our 21 year old,re a job or anything about his future.Today he said he will be walking the streets lost without me,cause I didnt teach him how to work and do for himself.Thats a hard one,I need help on how to get through to my son, and I do always direct him to get a job, then Im put down my n sayingLet him grow up.What a catch 22!!! He listens to me, but his self asteam is so low from his father saying its not good enouph or staring at him when he gets something to eat.No wonder he only eats once a day,and snacks the rest.Rarely do we sit down at the table as a family.Never being able to decorate the christmas tree until he says its ok,he has to do the lights first.He never would let me put family photes up either.why?maybe because he wanted to forget he had kids.He has said it before.I am taking it a day at a time...God is watching over me too, I have been very close to him all my life, I feel like I strayed away this last few years though.Not anymore, He is first in my life again, and always will be.Any advice?

Anonymous said...

WoW! I am not alone! I am not the only one who was duped and manipulated and who now looks back and thinks: How could I have been so blind? I had a relationship with a N for 6 years, he was responsible for the breakup of my marriage. His 'total devotion to me' in that period, and never ending flattering attention led me to be more attentive to him than my husband, who after a while found someone who would show him attention.How stupid I was.
Right from the start there were warning bells. But I found excuses for all the oddities. I remember thinking to myself "It is not fair to write off all the people in this world who have alcohol problems, who don’t seem to have friends, who has no contact with family, who havn’t worked for 15yrs”, because he had of course told me about this – and none of it was HIS fault. What I should have thought was “I am really not interested in starting a relationship with someone who has alcohol problems, who don’t seem to have friends, who has no contact with family, who hasn’t worked for 15yrs”,and not touched him with a barge pole. Why didn’t I listen to those sensible guts of mine? At one point rather early, I was getting – “I don’t need to have contact with this person” when he told me he had leukaemia. I now know that was a lie but I believed it at the time and it made it difficult to give him the cold shoulder at that particular time – and then after a while it was too late, trapped.

Actually the early times were rather good, although I always felt a slight embarrassment when I introduced him to my various friends. He doesn’t have social antennae – and I could tell by their reaction to him that they thought him rather odd. “Hello, I’m N, please excuse my hair is a bit of a mess today”. Everything we did was always marred by his odd ways and routines and compulsions and fears. But he was loving ( in an odd sort of way) and attentive and helpful where it suited him. But a total parasite. He wormed himself into my whole life. I was his master plan for a comfortable rest of his life – and when I pulled the plug in the end, it rather scuppered his plan.

The insidious changes over four years, where he came to visit me (we live in different European countries) more and more often and for longer and longer periods led to my gradual realization that the last thing I wanted was a permanent relationship with him. But it wasn’t until I had ended things and he turned nasty, that a psychologist friend of mine said – he sounds like an N. And so I read about it and thought o heck – this is going to be a big problem. And it is. Tried to keep him ‘sweet’ for a while after I broke things off, but he started trying to entwine me again. So last 4 May I e-mailed and literally ordered him to never send any more mails or other communications and to keep away from me, my house, my family. Since then? Latest count 374 e-mails, letters and e-mails to my friends, family and colleagues. Gifts, flowers, etc etc. Visited this country 3x last summer, snooped around outside my house and totally spooked me.

Now? he says he is going to move to this country in 2 months time. Nightmare. He has no job here and his only aim in life is to destroy me in all possible ways. Doing pretty well there, actually. There’s not much left in your head when an N has got inside. But I have now reported him to the police with a thick dossier of threatening e-mails to me. I don’t know yet if they'll do anything. He threatens to launch defamatory websites that’ll be No.1 hit for my surname (unfortunately very unusual) and to “Tell all my friends and family and colleagues what I am REALLY like”. It is a nightmare. I don’t know what he will do, or if he will do anything, and it wears me out trying to anticipate his next move.

Yes, this could have been a hundred pages long. I know you will all recognize much of what I have written. I hope that one day he will be out of my head and out of my life. But I guess I will never be quite sure…..

Hang in there everybody – we have all got to survive this!

Anonymous said...

It has taken 2 years for me to stop feeling the hurt and embarrasment associated with being in a relationship with an N. 2 years of my life .... and that's not to mention the 5 previous years of torment suffered whilst in an abusive relationship - lies, infidelity, public humiliation etc etc etc... you ladies know it all and have been there. Now I still wake with the memories but the feelings of pain have been disconnected. I can now think of N but not feel the angst. 2 years... Whoever he is with now.. good luck to them. If they have the emotional stamina to weather the negative charm, the criticism, the continual rejection, the avoidance/withdrawal, the drunkeness, the abuse.. then it is at their peril. Sometimes I feel like getting a billboard and posting all of info on him so that I can maybe stop the damage to other women. Because I know he will continue to so what he does. But I know that it would be silly of me to even continue with the replaying the hurt. I am no longer a part of his twisted life and have no wish to return. Splashing his torture would just be like revisiting the sickness and I am over the whole thing. Reading all of your stories has helped me be stronger. There is life at the end of an N. And it is so much more fulfilling - my focus is now on me and my children and what really counts. Not some self obsessed insecure abusive non-event of a person. He will go where he will go and thankfully I will be somewhere else with other things that matter more.

Anonymous said...

Narcistic Neighbor. The first 9 years we thought our troubling neighbor was materialistic (had to have everything better than anyone else and if not she was not your friend again ). Her mood swings made us believe she was a sckhizo on medication which was worse when drinking booze. The hour(s) she has spent starring at us or our guests from her bay window or giving us the middle finger everytime we drive by. Once she had a visitor ( very rare and the same visitors never come back to visit twice) and when she started giving her tour as Queen of the neighborhood gardens her guest was quickly sidetracked & overheard by us commenting on our own property ameneties. That night at midnite our narcissist neighbor was outside our bedroom window screaming, giving the finger and mooning us for 20 minutes. We first thought it was the combination of booze & medication again. Finally we got educated on what NPD is and realized the best thing to do is to completely ignore her even when she spends one hour yelling and intimidating you while working on our landscaping (oops our property is getting better looking than hers again). Her husband does what he is told even if it means looking like a fool & taking over the lawnmowing for her in which she has already been going over the same property line for over an hour while having a quiet BBQ with friends. I was told that she is not the one that is dangerous by psychologists. Her husband is the one to worry about for our safety and that he will be the one to one day that will BLOW UP from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome - this I was told will happen to him either after he leaves or eventually during their NPD relationship/marriage.
All of the neighbourhood is praying that they will move someday as was the case I found out with their previous neighborhood they lived in.
IGNORE and do not react in order to feed their much needed Narcistic food supply. Cutting them off though is like taking heroin away from an addict. The depression and recuperation cycle begins again and she eventually comes out again trying to be nice again in order to find her next narcistic feed.

Anonymous said...

Hi all,

I wanted to share my story with you. I was in a romantic relationship with a narcissist for 3 years, and when it finally blew up, my sense of worth and value was turned SO upside down. While I was with him, I was always confused and I felt that maybe if I tried harder, if I was more loving, if I was more distant, if I was more agreeable, ANYTHING...I would see the relationship change and become normal. Healthy. Loving.

I waited so long, too long, and it never happened. After we broke up, I purposely stayed single for upwards of 2 years because my soul was in such pain I couldn't handle the thought of being hurt again. Even at that point, I somehow brought it all around to "What could I have done differently? How come he didn't love me?" I expected him to hook up with someone new right away and turn around and have the commitment and children he refused me.

It has now been 5 years since we broke up, and a mutual friend has surfaced in my life. This mutual friend saw my ex as a wonderful guy; smart, friendly, giving. I saw that too, but I also saw a complete different version of him. I was NEVER allowed to cry in his presence. If I did, he kicked me out of his house. I wore a smile for 3 years without ever being able to talk to him about anything that wasn't perfect, happy or easy. When I was with him, I lost both my beloved grandma and my golden retriever within months of each other. Not only did he NOT provide any empathy, warmth or kindness whatsoever, he wouldn't even phone me during that time. I was only allowed to see him when HE was in control. When we were around HIS friends, HIS family, and at HIS home.

I have just learned from our mutual friend that my ex's father died last year. His dad was the only person in the world that he was unconditionally loving with, and it hit him very hard. My ex, who was extremely vain and judged everyone by how they looked, has gained a lot of weight. More women have come and gone in his life since I was there.

And here's a point I REALLY want to get across to everyone here: the woman after me experienced exactly what I did. He was with her for at least a year, but none of his friends really knew what was going on because their relationship never progressed. My ex only allowed romantic relationship in his life if HE CALLED EVERY SHOT. If not, you got kicked out. No questions asked, no second chances.

I waited a long time for him to change as I loved him very deeply. He has not changed. He's now in his 40's and alone; roommates come and go in his life and he flits from party to party. He is aging, unchanging, and still without the partner and children that he told me he wanted, way back when. What I know now is that he will never give up the control he has to let someone in and be a husband and father.

If you are involved with a narcissist, PLEASE, RUN. Don't wait for them to change and waste precious years of your life like I did. There is no change. I am quite aware that my ex thinks I am a psychopathic bitch, because I dared to ask him for what I wanted. It wasn't an unusual request: I wanted trust, and a safe place to be emotionally, and I wanted a partner. He hated so much to be asked for these things that he views ME as the person who has major issues.

It's been 5 years and I know now that it wasn't ME. It was HIM. And there's nothing I could have done to have changed him. If you also have that illusion, please do what you need to do and get yourself out of that relationship, even if it requires a year of healing and seeking support.

In the end, these people will suck your spirit dry and leave you with no self esteem.

I'm much better without him in my life. I wish you all healing and happiness.

Anonymous said...

To the woman who is being stalked in Europe by the man who is going to move to be near her, and is sending hundreds of emails--have you considered that he might be borderline (BPD)? It is a different ball of wax if he is and you might take different measures. It is possible that the police might take it more seriously as well, perhaps you can get a restraining order. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

I am recovering (slowly and hopefully) from a narcissistic relationship with a woman who changed a lot of my perceptions about myself and left me feeling empty, disorientated and sad. I still love her (or the illusion of who I thought she was).
She "lovebombed" me in the beginning - just as the brilliant advice on this site says narcissists do. She hooked me with sex, messages of "luv" (not "love"!!!).
A few months into the relationship I was returning with drinks from the bar. She was swapping phone numbers with another guy.RED FLAG. I asked WTF was going on and he said he does "DIY" and was just giving his number in case she needed helping out - ha - b***sh*t. Next day she says "I've lost you, haven't I?".
I stayed (big mistake). We had some great times and seemed to move on. Then after a holiday in Portugal, she told me she was pregnant. I was so happy. In my 40's never had a child and now everything seemed so brilliant. She was saying it will be a "Christmas baby" We joked about naming our baby Christabelle, or Rudolph. I was so happy. Then two and a half months into the pregnancy she said was going to have a termination. Nothing I could say would change her mind. I begged her not to do it. When she was going through the termination (through pills and an enema) I felt my heart had been ripped out. All the promise with someone I love so much, just torn up and thrown away. She never wanted to talk about it - or anything (except her). The subject was closed.
I had suspicions she was cheating on me and she boxed me off from her social life bit by bit, didn't want to be seen around town with me but still wanted me for sex when she couldn't go out on weekends and her ex didn't have the kids. I no longer met her friends with her (we used to all get on well).I was no longer invited to the parties. When I did meet people we knew as a couple there would be awkwardness - like there was something just not right. The relationship was on drip-feed. Inexplicably she would dump me, then pick me up again a few weeks or months later saying how much she loved me. Each time I felt devastated, then felt so happy that we were back together.We split last year for six months. She told me she had been with several other guys on one night stands having unprotected sex (she said it was because she can't help herself, she's a slag when she gets drunk - her words). She said she wants to be friends, but says she's still friends with some of those guys she slept with. I finished the relationship in November and got checked for STIs (results were ok thank god) but I still hurt. I still love her but am angry at how she treated me and miss her, but realise that it could never work with her. I am working on getting back into the things I used have before I met her - the things that I didn't realise she had chipped away at and diminished and dismissed as irelevent. It's hard work but I have good friends and have taken up my art again and started dancing again. I didn't realise that there were people such as narcissists who could so subtly take your world apart piece by piece and leave you feeling so devastated. So true that you should discount their words and observe the behaviour. I wish peace and happiness to anyone that has had their life pulled to pieces by a narcissist. Be strong. You can heal.

Anonymous said...

I have been with my N for 17 years..12 of those years as husband and wife..I thought I was crazy until 6 weeks ago when he assaulted me in front of our 11 year old daughter and now there is a restraining order..Because there is no contact i have been able to put all the pieces of the puzzle of the last 17 years together..The puzzle was not pretty..He blamed me for everything wrong in his life..His 3 DUI's were my fault his heart condition is my fault.His lack of money is my fault..everything is my fault..he came and gone as he pleased..He didn't want to take responsibility for anything.He was extremely verbally abusive not to mention almost everything in my house is now glued or stapled or nailed or patched from his many temper tantrums. I had to constantly change to fit the image he wanted everyone to believe but he never changed anything for me.He destroyed me financially and every other way..he put me through a bankruptcy and a foreclosure and that was my fault too.he demanded i put his new truck in my name so i did and when the payments weren't made and the truck was repoed he told me many times that he should have kept the truck and got rid of me..I constantly walked on eggshells never knowing what i could say cause most topics were off limits..i couldn't talk about us, bills, money, his job , his day, me, my job, my feelings etc..He wanted me to be a housewife but then bitched about money so i got a job and he bitched about me not being home to cater to him..When i get sick he is inconvenienced and if i need a ride i have to ask someone else but it was ok having to drive him everywhere when he lost his license for his DUI's cause to him what he needs is important but what i need is not.Almost everything out of his mouth is a lie and of course now that we are not together he is telling anyone who will listen what a victim he is and they believe him. Found out that he touched my oldest daughter innapropriately and also found out he likes to look at little kid porn sites on the internet..All his lies were catching up to him and instead of facing them he assaulted me broke down the garage door and left to go live with his boss/friend who is the new supply.. the friend is no better than the N is..I am left with my daughter who he has supervised visistation with but he has yet to set that up and i am left with bills and debt and my heart completely smashed.. I truly loved this N and he threw our daughter and i away like we were crap with no remorse..IT will take me a long time to recover but I know i will and I know my daughter and I will be better for it and only great things are in my future..He will get his for what comes around goes around.

Anonymous said...

WOW, I had not idea there was a name for my husband's personality until I stumbled on this blog today! You have all written my life story!! Ive been married 30 years, but the N tendencies were not so obvious until the last 10 years. Maybe I was too preoccupied raising babies and working full time to really be hurt by his ways. But now, looking back, this certainly explains why I was made to feel so worthless at times. EVERYTHING in our life is about HIM! Our daughter's college graduation day he turned all the attention to himself. The day I had an uncomfortable biopsy done, was all about him. He had to be escorted out of the funeral home because of his temper tantrum. His siblings did not order the exact flower arrangement he wanted...he threw the arrangements all over the room during his Mother's wake. Can you imagine!!! He is an alcoholic (he never touched alcohol until about 20 years into our marriage)I have 3 intelligent, successful children and quite frankly I will take the credit for their upbringing. We own a business together and not only do we have the economy against us, but his N drives customers away. I am struggling to keep our business alive and try to keep him out of the office. Legally I can not have him banded from the property and if I file for divorce, the business will be dissolved. I am trapped. Not only am I running my own business, but I took a second job (37 hours/week), working for someone else to supplement our income. It's been a 10 year downhill slide and the bankruptcy will be complete within a couple of months. Now I am fighting to keep my house. I can see where his mother had the same N tendencies, but I was young and did not realize what N was. I married a hard working, intelligent man who was well respected for his honesty and integrity in the community. He has changed - has no drive, won't work, lost all interest in his toys and hobbies. Just sits on the couch all day, waiting for me to get home from work to start the roller coaster ride of emotions. In his eyes I can't do anything right. But then all of a sudden he fills me with compliments. My self esteem is elevated for a short time. I keep my guard, cause I know it will all come crashing down. The mystery is when and why does he change his tune. You can not carry on a normal daily conversation with him. He is always sicker, smarter, experienced more of the topic or in more pain then anyone else could possibly know. He was emotionally abused and abandoned as a small child, but say he blocks out most of the memories. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between "N" and boarder line personality disorder? I've been reading on both and some of the characteristics are the same. I'm thankful for stumbling onto this blog. At least I know im not loosing my mind and I have a source to work through the problems. thank you.

Anonymous said...

Do narcissists ever know that there is something wrong with them?

I spent one year with a narcissist with ons and offs and I finally decided I couldn’t continue with him if I wanted to maintain my mental and emotional stability (thanks god relatively early!).

I recall a few certain moments during our good times when he called himself an “evil” –“bad person”, told me he wanted to become better, or that he was bad before he met me; that his world is dark, that his thoughts are usually not happy, that I deserved someone better, he denied that he has a good heart when I told him so etc.

I wonder whether he was aware of his narcissism and therefore he didn’t feel well with himself. Sometimes though I had the impression that to be called evil and sly was something he enjoyed…

Where does the truth lie? Are narcissists ever conscious of their condition and do they ever feel shame about it or an urge to change? Or are all these words just another means of manipulation?

It doesn’t really matter anymore, as I’ve decided to put him out of my life, but knowing as much as I can about the disorder helps me to recover from this soul-draining experience.

Thank you

Cherry Bomb said...

thanks soooo much for your ten tips. A smile came over my face when I finished reading them because they are the intuitive steps I took to help myself change my patterns. I feel like I connected to a force of spiritual correctness. Yes, it was and is hard to change. What I hope will happen is that I get to the part where I feel the pride of changing rather than feeling like I lost out on a possible union with a N-male. A friend reminded me that the N is nothing to personalize or feel loss over. That what they do they do. To get to the pride I had to mourn the loss of those/that to which I was previously drawn. As I write I feeling of right choice comes over me. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE TRUTH IN YOUR 10 TIPS. THEY ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY OF WHAT ONE ACTUALLY NEEDS TO DO FOR ONESELF. I ESPECIALLY LOVED HOW YOU WROTE ONE HAS TO YANK ONESELF OUT IF IT. SO TRUE. SO TRUE. MANY MANY THANKS.

Patrick said...

WOW...the relief from finding this site! I was married to a narcissist for 12 long unhappy years. We have two beautiful children which will forever link us. She can't control me persay anymore but has done irreversible damage to me as a result in the community, my work and my personal life. The public keeps her "victim status" high and never sees the side I have only seen. She takes takes takes from everyone...if you stop giving to her she will make you disappear. Hopefully her people will get tired of giving and never receiving. She is a manipulative bully and spends her waking moments scheming her next move. Pure evil. My children are suffering immensley. In PA women get the upper hand in divorce whether you are a great mom or a lousy mom....she is the latter. Her new boyfrined took my 11 year old son to the bar and wants to shave my 8 year old daughters legs! She thinks its cute! I called the police and C&Y but nothing was done. I am relieved to see I am not alone but frustrated to hear how many people fall victim to this type of person! So sad...best of luck to all who have crossed paths with a sociopath. Watch your back! I am now on the mend and not giving her the ammo I once did...she is fighting mad and starting to show her true colors to the world....

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for this article. I work with such a person and cannot walk away -- not yet. But, this article gave me a clear understanding of what is going on and how to take care of myself. My instincts have been right all along. I don't need to try and "understand" who this person is and why this person acts the way they do. I now KNOW!! And, I now have the resources that I need to deal with the situation and keep my emotional self safe.

Thank you so very very much!!

Anonymous said...

Wow - what a breath of fresh air to find this site with the 10 tips and all the stories of other similar people. Thank you all.

Here is my story: I was a foster carer to a young adult for 5 years who has NPD. i gave him my heart and soul and my whole life hoping that a mothers unconditional love would help heal him from his sad background ... I eventually learned that victim had become abuser and that sadly there is no healing, no matter how much love is poured into them. He would tell his friends lies about how I treated him purely to gain attention and sympathy. I have been manipulated, subjected to vitriolic verbal abuse, threatened, perpetually lied to my face, berated, sneered at, ridiculed and insulted on a daily basis and I have been stolen from and beaten too. All the while I stayed with the programme because I thought there was a heart in there somewhere that love would finally access. He has his own place now which I helped him get, not a word of thanks because he considers he is entitled. There is not enough room here to describe the individual events, horrors, the crazy, frightening, sickening, soul-destroying behaviour that I lived with daily. But I dont need to, because all narcissists are the same and you have all been through the same stuff yourselves .

My advice to others reading this who are still in their relationship is -GET OUT NOW. Every day you stay, the poison works its way deeper and deeper. I didnt realise quite how deeply all the years of abuse had affected me till he went. I used to be such a happy person, I had plenty of interests and friends, I enjoyed my own company, if I was stressed I would just go for a walk and enjoy Nature. Now I feel restless and empty and my soul feels corrupted. I feel I cant relate to 'normal' people anymore after having to fight my quarter 24/7. I think the thing that affected me the most was the mood swings - verbal abuse one second, then saying 'Why are you BEING like this?!' the next; all sweetness and light one moment and then transformed into a demonic monster because you would not hand him something that was right beside him. It chills me that EVERYONE gets drawn into his world - mesmerised by him, and he can get people to do anything he wants. It is early days now and I am determined to heal but there is no going back to the perons I used to be - once you have been abused to this extent you are changedforeever.

Narcissists play on other people's guilt, love, good nature and their sheer naivity that there are people in the world who have no conscience and who think only in terms of what benefit people can bring them.

But yes, as has alrady been commented, these narcissists do hold a terrible mirror up to us that makes us see aspects of ourselves that we never would have realised before - and in bringing this deep dark part up into the light, we can heal it. My journey helped me remember some early childhood abuse I had blocked out and explained why there have been a succession of relationships with narcissists in my life. I feel the rest of my life can now be an opportunity to re-evaluate who I really am and live in a more enpowered authentic way.

Thanks for giving me a space in which to tell my story. Love and blessings to you all, and I believe we will all come through our personal hell in our own time. I think the thing we have to remember is that the majority of the human race is good and kind and capable of empathy and giving love. The mistake we all made was in thinking that they all were.

Anonymous said...

Hi,
Finally I figured out something in my life. I am living with a N for last 18yrs. I never understood it. Recently one of his nephews diagnosed with personality disorders. I remember the psychiatrist who we saw few years back mentioning about it. I never bothered to learn more about it. I was trapped in it.The irony is that I am working as mental health nurse too.
Our relationship was very rocky in the beginning itself. After marriage, I told him a secret in my life and mentioned not to tell anyone. But he told his parents right away. He always portrayed me as a bad person in front of his family. I always respected his family members. He never liked my father. My father and I had a close relationship. He always comment on my father as a very bad person. I thought it as a natural jealous for father-in-law.Even after my father's death, he continues to harass him. He is very loyal to his parents, even though they want only money from him. He doesn't trust anyone. He cannot keep any long term friendship. He doesn't have any close friends.We met many people, but he doesn't trust them. We have few friends through me.Even his own siblings are keeping a distance.They do not have any bond among themselves either.
He always demean me in front of everyone. He knows that I am very sensitive and never considers that. He never apologized to me in our 18yrs of life. Last year he admitted to me that too.Always I am blamed for everything. In front of my relatives and friends, he is very caring.He says he doesn't care about money. But at the same time very stingy in spending money.My daughter told him that "dad you are a hypocrite". I could never tell that. I know that, I am not assertive. Sometimes, when I feel upset with something, I cry. he never consoled me. He turned to the opposite side and will ignore me totally. I wanted a partner who understands me and cares about t me. He always forced me to do on his way.
He never showed any affection to me in public. He never holds my hand even in front of my kids.Even in our sexual life, he wants certain things and he will make sure he gets it. He never bothered to know what I want.When I think back, I feel very stupid and how I sucked to his pleasures.I can write a book on it.
This blog helped me to educate myself.

Anonymous said...

I have been reading more and more regarding N personalities. I have been with a man for almost five years who almost completely destroyed my son and I. When it came to the end I told him I had to get myself back (because they beat you spritually, mentally, financially and any other way they see fit to behoove themselves only). Over the course of the five years, I think we have been back and forth 25 times. The biggest mistake was marrying him...that only lasted a very short time and I knew I had to save myself from that. However, he still coerced me back. Even after threats of killing me. The last contact I had with him I hope will be the last. I can not even look at this man and don't want to for the remainder of my life. It brings me too much pain to think anyone would want to abuse someone that much. He would have affairs and come back to me...he would tell me how he could have any woman he chose. They think of themselves as nice guys however they control you with guilt, hurt and are adamant about you facing yourself and the way you might portray yourself. In one breath I was the biggest liar and whore and in the next I was the love of his life. Heaven forbid you try to discuss anything with them regarding your emotions, feelings, etc. However you are supposed to coddle theirs like they are king baby. I am currently rebuilding my life with my son. My biggest mistake was to allow someone like this to prey upon me and my son at a vulnerable time in my life. I have depleted my bank account...however, I am here and thank God that the nightmare is over...I had to fight and say things I thought I never would to accomplish what I did though. Now I want to be normal again.

Anonymous said...

I have been rereading this eveyday for a week.Almost 20 years ago i fell madly in love with a man,who could not have been sweeter.Not only was he good looking,but called all the time and acted like he was as crazy about me as i was about him.It was the shortest non relatinship i ever had,one day he pretty much just disappeared.he wouldnt talk to me when i did run into him,wouldnt answer his phone,although it was short,it hounded me for all these years because i didnt understand.About a year ago he contacted me,he was in an unhappy marriagee,blamed her for everything,and started the same sweet talk again..i,of course,fell for it.He did break up with his wife,but he then acted upset about it,and said he never wanted it!All along he had been talking about "us",etc.and did a complete turn around.he did finally move out,and i listened to his complaining and depression over it,any time day or night he would call,i would be there.But there were alos huge lapses in communication,and i was on an emotional roller coaster.I havent even SEEN him and he has that control over me.I have been so depressed about this.He can make me feel like a million,and then completely ignore me,making me feel so low its unreal.I am an intelligent,and supposedly good looking woman.If i wanted a partner or male companionship,i could have it.I didnt,until he reappeared.My sister works for psychiatrists and told me he was without a doubt an N.I didnt believe her,and made all kinds of excuses for him.The worst thing was when one of my sisters commited suicide,i hardly heard from him at all.The entire time,all the hours,i had listened to him complain aout his life(which couldnt hold a candle to mine when it comes to bad things)and then he ignored me during a time like that.Did i stay in contact even after that?Sure did.I feel like a complete idiot,and i am not myself anymore.I have let things go downhill,my house,my business...i am trying really hard to keep away,so i will be on this page every other minute to remind myself it isnt going to go away or get any better...Thanks to all of you.

Anonymous said...

Hi Folks. My ex-(and how I hate that prefix)wife (nearly 25 years married, friends--I thought--for 35, and 4 beautiful sons) is a classic N--charming, school principal, beautiful, driven, loves being centre of attention, turns every topic, somehow, into ME ME ME, superwoman, scheming, man-addict, merciless to those she discounts, kind to a fault if she knows that will get her what she craves, loyal to no one, purely deceitful, no maternal instincts, etc. etc. You will know the traits. And no one, except those she privately destroys, believes she's anything less than wonderful, or abused, or whatever she needs them to believe about her, depending whom she's with.

If you're new to being victimized by a N, you may hear yourself or others who know the N ask, "How can he/she do that??" or something close to that question.

I agonized with that one for a long time. Then it hit me, with some relief, that I could just as well ask, "Why is water wet?"

It's just the way it is.

I think that question comes from two sources; namely, our own normalcy and good will, which we project on to the N, and our own need for an explanation of something that, without that explanation, confronts us as impossible.

Once we accept that the N just is, we can relax and back away a bit.

I confess that I still love the person who never was, that person I am still tempted to believe is there "deep down" behind the N's facade. But I'm coming to let go of that too. There's nobody home.

It's taken me years. It's part of grieving both the loss of a relationship and home that was not at all times bad, and the loss of what never was and should have been.

And as only those who have been betrayed can appreciate, betrayal is worse than losing someone to death, so the attendant griefwork is more complicated.

Anyway, as the blog says, stay out of the N's head. Just ask why water is wet, and accept the answer to that question in its simplicity.

Bunny said...

I am so sorry for you ladies who are dealing with this. I was married for 15 years to a guy whose mother's name as on a school building. I felt his family had a social patina with all the trimmings and this was the right guy for me. It was lines, lines, lines from him but at the time I was vulnerable because I had just come off a very rejecting divorce from a marriage for 14 years. I am now 63. So when I finally got loose of #2 I truly doubted my abilty to ever trust my own opinion in evaluating someone.

#1 was very controlling and criticizing. I married him at age 19 so basically I grew up after we married. As I grew up, I realized I did not want this control by the guy who was only 6 years older. But he was spoiled by then, and he resisted the changes. But honestly, he was definitely narcissistic. He could not tell me I was pretty, it took away from his own sense of well being. We had counseling. He told the counselor that intellectually he knew it was wrong, but he felt I did not deserve the extra praise, so he was not going to give it. The counselor said, "This woman is telling you what she wants. It is very simple." But my EX said, " I know it is wrong but that is how I feel."


Now by then I was in my early 30s and had two children. I wanted to leave. I longed to leave. I had my own work by then and enough of an income that I could make it. Not until I moved closer to family did I have the courage to file for divorce. It was scary, I was ashamed, I was subjected to threats and even a rape by my ex husband but I went thru with the divorce.

Read on for Part Two!

Bunny said...

BUNNY PART TWO:
Everything turned out okay until I married #2. He was a narcissist too, only with different traits. How could I have gone from one to another one? That is hard to figure out. Well this one was in business and got other people to invest in his business ideas, and it was one lawsuit after another. How terrible. He would tell me one thing and they would say another. I was in the dark and believed all his lies and explanations. Finally, the business was shut down and he was living off me. Finally, I got strong enough to kick him out. I had finally reached the point where I felt nothing for him except that he was a liability. I wish I had never married him but I was so grateful for the attention. The kids liked him too and he gave them attention to win them over. But once he got in trouble, he did not live up to

Anonymous said...

PART THREE BUNNY

After we divorced, his case winded thru court and finally he was sentenced to five years in prison. I cannot believe that i was married to someone who went to jail. It is so awful to realize this. Thank God I was divorced before he was sentenced. I have changed my name (thanks to marriage #3 and also my hair color and moved away from that city).

I told my lawyer that I did not really believe that #2 was a criminal but the lawyer said, Yes he was. He said he had lots of clients who were crooks and they always had nice clothes, nice cars, but no money. He said some are not in it for the money. It is the power.

Well when I met #3 I thought he was boring. Myn thoughts were that he was not for me, but he had a good income and was a nice man and I decided to give it a chance. The marriage has lasted now over 15 years, and it has been give and take. He does not ask me for money, try touse me in any way, or play mind games. I am free to come and go all I like. I can take trips with girlfriends and he never complains. He earns a good living and is a secure man. He only seemed boring because in my co-dependent state, I could not see where I would fit in. He did not NEED me. He picked up ALL the checks, offered to do things for me and was kind. I am lucky to have found such a man. The love I had for #2 was false. I was in love with something that he was presenting which was not the truth. I am lucky I got away from this man. My kids did turn out all right and I think they learned by this not to trust everyone.

Anonymous said...

I was exhausted by one 'friend' who would call me all hours with her issues. I tried to help and was continually led through her crap. Finally I dumped her when my mother was ill and I couldn't take this woman calling me every day to tell me that I had to face up to the fact that my mother was dying. Like I didn't know that, but I couldn't tolerate the lack of boundaries anymore. I lost a whole group of friends who thought I was being mean to dump this parasite! I'm so glad to be rid of her. She told me I was ruining my young teen daughter by not dressing her up to look as cool as her children. This was 6 years ago and her children are all now disfunctional (rebellious, eating disorders, stressing to become famous because they are so worried to be nobody) while my daughter is beautiful, normal, and thriving in college!

One of the worst N's has been my brother. I championed everything he did for years and he bled me dry financially and emotionally. When I disagreed with him on an issue, he cut me out of his life while telling everyone that I abandoned him. He's made a huge mess within the family, but his lies are catching up to him. I was really grieved that his charm could win over people that he does nothing for, while I was made into the bad person. I have always been in communication with my relatives to the degree that they sent me Christmas/birthday cards for my brother because he couldn't be bothered to contact anybody or share his changing addresses. Yet they adore him because he makes them feel like he is doing them a big favor by blessing them with his occasional presence. He plays the victim card to the hilt. Married women give him large amounts of money and clothing because they believe he is special. Unfortunately, this is done under the guise of spirituality, and it further clouds the minds of his followers. He wows people with his musical talent when there is no one home behind the passionate, empathetic facade. He's cold, passionless, paranoid, and all about me, me, me!

I found that N's behave better when you don't give them any special attention. It makes my brother angry when I don't react and he searches elsewhere for attention. I'm finally at peace with letting him get mad because it keeps me from getting entangled. I still pay the price of some people thinking badly of me when he whines about me. He's just sorry that I no longer drop everything to serve him. I am sorry for the times I put my brother ahead of my husband and children. I recently ran into a few N's from my theater days that once treated me abominably. They acted delighted to see me and were pouring on the charm. I was friendly, but I sure as heck am never going to work or socialize with them on purpose! I hold my tongue when I'm around any N's because I don't want to accidentally invite them into any part of my life! I've also noticed that N's choose you and not the other way around. But, you have the power to not be their friend. I choose my friends carefully and if someone is clamoring for my friendship, I evaluate them to see their life has integrity.

My husband's sister likes to drive us crazy. She is almost 60 and her elderly parents (my in-laws) are spending a lot of their retirement money to keep her afloat. My husband always fills up his dad's gas tank, or helps them with large projects because he is good person. He's also catered to his sister much like I used to cater to my brother. My father-in-law recently asked me if we were going to take care of her after they are gone. I told him 'no way' in no uncertain terms. She's nasty and lives in squalor. I'll be furious if they leave their estate to her because she 'needs it more.' She's lazy and tries to mooch off of everyone.

God help us all find peace and safety away from N's!

Anonymous said...

Hello to all readers. I battled internally with my ex N for 5 years. By that I mean after the relationship ended, I continually sought answers to the questions about why he had behaved towards me the way that he did - for example, why did he verbally abuse me in front of his friends and family, why did he ignore me, why did he selectively answer his phone to me, why did he sleep around, why did he get drunk and abusive, why did he expect me to do everything for him but couldn't even bother to return a gesture, why did he expect me to pay his bills, his cleaning, etc etc etc... with no recognition only abuse for when I didn't do what he wanted !!! I continually asked myself why he did this. Then I started to ask why I allowed myself to allow him to do that. Then I thought that there was something wrong with me for allowing him to do that.... and through all this he would contact me sporadically and offer a temptation... and then I would get so upset that I was still in love with such a low life... Well... I accept that there is a part of me that loves a part of him... even though I know that part of him that I love is just a fantasy in my mind. It got to the stage where I was convinced that I was crazy. I spent years in a state of despair trying desperately to find an answer. I tried every mind trick that I could think of. I don't know when things changed for me but one night, after many tears, I decided that I would just accept him for what he was, but also accept that I wanted what he was.. then I saw the funny side. I mean it is just like some sort of tragic comedy... someone who is love with someone who is not there - almost like a non-person, a ghost. I have spent my time being in love with someone who didn't and never will have the capacity to love anyone except himself. What a farce!!! We can only laugh at things like that when we see the irony in other's situations. I took myself out of the picture, looked on the situation as an observer and realised that if I was looking at someone else in the same situation I would think it ludicrous. It is a joke. How could someone be so stupid!! Thankfully I can now laugh at myself and see the funy side in the whole situation. I accept that I still love the part of him that I wanted him to be but he could never be. I am happy with that as that is like a fairy tale - something you read, it makes you feel good and then you put the book away. But really... can you take the fairy tale into real life without a laugh. I think not... I don't know how others view this.

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to make light of other people's experiences with an N or my own. I was beaten, abused and suffered humility that took me years to recover from. I spent a number of years gradually exposing myself to the memories of his abuse so that I could eventually remember the events without feeling sick or wanting to end it all. I still fear a future relationship with a man as I am fearful that I will just run for cover when I have to trust again. I have never experience such humilitation and shame and have no wish to do so ever again.

But I have realised the irony and comedy in the whole situation and if all else fails I have to laugh about it.... who would have been so stupid????

Anonymous said...

My ex and not ex N has continued (with my on off choice) to invade my life. I have sought refuge and comment from my friends. Some advice has been advantageous, others not. But the last comment from a friend took my attention and I feel was worthy of note and sharing to others. After discussing yet another lengthy and emotionally exhausting phone call from my ex N when he said that yes he loved me but a relationship with me was "undecided" my friend said to me... "he is like the boy who, when confronted with something or someone that had caused him offence, decides to go and pick the wings from a butterfly, one by one, and whilst he does that he watches the poor butterfly quiver in pain, delighting as he does so. He has no feeling for the butterfly, he just wants to get back at something that cannot speak or argue back". I cannot argue with her logic.....

Anonymous said...

Like many of your readers, I have found the site, comments and advice, insightful and helpful. I have had 9 years of involvement with a N. A volatile, on-off relationship that could make you feel on top of the world one minute and as low as you could imagine within hours. I believe I am an intelligent woman and still cannot believe I have let this man leave me as distressed as he has, even though we have not been a couple for a year, I have met up with him on occasions as I believed he wanted me.
The trouble is, for most women it is only after you have been destroyed that you realise what you have been involved with and start looking on sites like this. If any woman is thinking that they are involved with anyone displaying any of the signs...RUN, and believe it is not you. Do not waste your life believing it will get better...it will not.

Anonymous said...

I believe my elderly mother to be a narcissist. So many years of wondering why she paid no attention to me, coming away from a visit feeling as if there had been no real conversation, wondering why she blames me for everything wrong, and wondering just what was wrong. Through reading online I've become very informed and she fits every symptom to a tee. If only I'd known, there would have been no contact beginning years ago and now it's too late. The worst part is that she was around my oldest daughter and around the oldest grandson. They both show the same symptoms of having a personality disorder, and also verbally abuse me and fly into rages and irrational blame. Is this inherited or were they damaged during the formative years somehow? I have no doubt been damaged, but don't have narcissism most likely due to spending time with normal family, daycare, and babysitters.

Budapest said...

Well, dont underestimate the power of an internet relationship.
I had a very similar experience, and it lasted for 3-4 yrs. Immediately following the 'i love you's' everything changed. I realized later thats what he was waiting for, he HAD me, and he knew it. He was an amazingly loving & affectionate person. But as time progressed I found inconsistencies in his stories. I had no problem with him staying overnight with a longtime (female) friend who lived a distance away. I have always had good relationships and have been very selective in investing in the right ppl. I was confident and comfortable enough with myself that if he was stupid enough to take my trust for granted ... he would forever become persona non grata to me. It later slipped that he had actually slept in her bed and 'cuddled' with her. This woman with the most perfect breasts, which were once described to me in great detail. ??? I dismissed a lot of things because he was much younger than I. I chalked it up to immaturity. But of course the sketchiness continued...

This was the worst experience I have had with anyone ..and one of the best things that could have happened to me. I instinctively knew this was an unhealthy relationship ... but I couldnt figure out why he was so good at expressing his 'love' for me, and then would send me a scathing email the next day calling me the worst of the worst names. Ive never had anyone speak to me this way. I would never accept it. But for some reason the relationship fascinated me. It was tearing me down and affecting my health, and yet I watched it all unfold like a removed observer.

I was trying to figure out his contradictions, (I knew he had suffered abuse & trauma in his childhood). While reading about Narcissism, I came to the end of one article and the very last thing written was ..."If you are reading this because you think you are in a relationship with a Narcissist, you are probably the child of a Narcissist" I had to read it 3 times as the blood drained from my face. My stomach dropped out and I instantly felt cold. It was actually one of the more terrifying moments of my life

I figured out why I kept working at this... knowing it had nothing to do with love or respect ... but lo and behold it was familiar to me. Suddenly it became so much easier to walk away.

I have a tenuous relationship with my mother. Now I realize I had to meet this person to help me deal with my childhood issues. It might even be luck because it helped so much to realize it wasnt me failing my mother, (she chose, and chooses not to acknowledge my successes). The Narcissist label took away a lot of the responsibility and guilt I have always felt. I understand why I am a perfectionist now. I understand that although I have always excelled and been praised (by others)for my efforts, I am too afraid to pursue my real goals (which I have everything I need to accomplish). I've been flying out there with no support, and no map. I realize that despite my professional and personal accomplishments, I had no guidance. I didnt even think about that until recently. Simple things like never being asked 'what do u want to be when you grow up?' ... or not being told 'You've got to get better grades, and go to university'. My report cards were never read. I was expected to write my own (forged) notes to justify cutting classes, because "Well, what do you want me to write?!! I'm going to be late!" clearly was an inconvenience. Small examples, but have made me wonder ... what if I had an involved parent, how would my life be different now? It's taken me many years to admit these things because I feel the guilt/shame.

If it wasn't for that troubled kid, I wouldn't have had that epiphany, or be working so much on myself right now. I'm learning to look after me, and trying very hard to acknowledge my truer potential... and it feels so scary.

Thank you for all for your validating & insightful stories.

Anonymous said...

This website has been part of my healing process for the last year. Many things stated here and elsewhere has been an immense help for me, especially the part about ignoring content. My stor is witha female N, that I spent about a year in a relationship with. Over time I have come to realize that there are so many good examples of narcissism in action that I just don't know where to start. I think previous comments and articles have described the mode of operation pretty well, but sometimes, especially when you're still stuck in the web, it is difficult to map the mechanics of an N to real-world events experienced. So I figured I would list some examples, ranging from subtile to outrageous. Hopefully, that will make someone say "Gee, I never thought of that as a problem before now!".

List of oddities:

* She always claimed that if I would be a slightly better person, change this and that, then I would live up to her exceptionally high standards.
* She disliked the way I eat, and told me that she was disgusted and had to look away, and told me I have to learn how to use the fork properly.
* She claims to be a spiritist, and according to this quasi-religion, spirits are reincarnated and develop though every lifetime to become a higher level of spirit until the spirit is perfected. She believed she was much "older" than me because her spirit was more well-developed.
* When she didn't become pregnant with me, she claimed that the spirits told her that her life had to choose another path, away from me.
* With her next boyfriend, she initially claimed that she had a feeling of that she was married to him in another life, and in that life, I was their child. Now they're no longer together, as he broke the relationship because he couldn't stand who she is, and she dismisses him with the argument "He's just an immature boy who lives with his mother.".
* After I said no to marrying her immediatley, but I would reconsider after we lived together for a year, she raged, and shortly after she went back to Brazil, where she met her new boyfriend, that she had despised for being crazy for almost 10 years.
* When she moved back to Brazil, she said it was temporary, and claimed that she didn't know what to do for months afterwards, and it was agonizing for me to be on pins and needles to wait for her to do something. And I tried everything to get her back, but no response. Later I found out that she had sex with him in a parking garage after two days of being there.

Anonymous said...

This website has been part of my healing process for the last year. Many things stated here and elsewhere has been an immense help for me, especially the part about ignoring content. My stor is witha female N, that I spent about a year in a relationship with. Over time I have come to realize that there are so many good examples of narcissism in action that I just don't know where to start. I think previous comments and articles have described the mode of operation pretty well, but sometimes, especially when you're still stuck in the web, it is difficult to map the mechanics of an N to real-world events experienced. So I figured I would list some examples, ranging from subtile to outrageous. Hopefully, that will make someone say "Gee, I never thought of that as a problem before now!".

List of oddities:

* She always claimed that if I would be a slightly better person, change this and that, then I would live up to her exceptionally high standards.
* She disliked the way I eat, and told me that she was disgusted and had to look away, and told me I have to learn how to use the fork properly.
* She claims to be a spiritist, and according to this quasi-religion, spirits are reincarnated and develop though every lifetime to become a higher level of spirit until the spirit is perfected. She believed she was much "older" than me because her spirit was more well-developed.
* When she didn't become pregnant with me, she claimed that the spirits told her that her life had to choose another path, away from me.
* With her next boyfriend, she initially claimed that she had a feeling of that she was married to him in another life, and in that life, I was their child. Now they're no longer together, as he broke the relationship because he couldn't stand who she is, and she dismisses him with the argument "He's just an immature boy who lives with his mother.".
* After I said no to marrying her immediatley, but I would reconsider after we lived together for a year, she raged, and shortly after she went back to Brazil, where she met her new boyfriend, that she had despised for being crazy for almost 10 years.
* When she moved back to Brazil, she said it was temporary, and claimed that she didn't know what to do for months afterwards, and it was agonizing for me to be on pins and needles to wait for her to do something. And I tried everything to get her back, but no response. Later I found out that she had sex with him in a parking garage after two days of being there.

Anonymous said...

* When she moved back to Brazil, she said it was temporary, and claimed that she didn't know what to do for months afterwards, and it was agonizing for me to be on pins and needles to wait for her to do something. And I tried everything to get her back, but no response. Later I found out that she had sex with him in a parking garage after two days of being there.
* During the relationship with her new boyfriend she would always call me and tell me that I was the only person that could stand her, and other things indicating that I was really the one, that her boyfriend told her that she would be more happy with me etc. I later concluded that this was just a way to keep me pinned and extract the last drops of NS that she could squeeze out of me.
* After the relationship and failed marriage plan/joint home plan failed and he left, she would again show me more attention, and telling me that she loved me etc. She said she would be single for at least a year. A month later she had hooked up with a cab driver that drove her to the airport. She described him as secretive and they had no mental connection, but the sex was good.
* It was not until a year later that she told me that she had sex with another guy in the beginning of our relationship, and how things really happened with her new/now ex boyfriend (after me).
* She is extremely sensitive to shame, and says herself that it's the worst and most intolerable feeling of all (since I read up on narcissism and knew what to look for).
* She said that in a marriage, you become one. You share your email/online account passwords, have a shared economy, and take equal responsibility for ALL problems. Which with her logic would mean that I would pay for her crazy parents since they had a life that resulted in a massive mountain of debt for them.
* She left her job here in Sweden, telling her boss that her family was needing her, while it was really her new boyfriend that was appealing, and never returned, which violated her contract.

Anonymous said...

She still says from time to time that I was an immense asset to her, and that she still loves me, but she never claimed responsibility for her actions, except for some occasional explanations or shallow feeling sorry moments. But she never took any real action to remedy even the most basic things that she left behind. I had to clean out her stuff in my apartment. She never finished her business with authorities here either, and I still receive letters from them adressed to her every now and then.

As with most people here, I saw some of the red flags pretty early, but ignored them since she was so good to argue about why they were in fact a good thing, instead of a bad thing. I feel stupid, but reading books and other resources about the subject has made me understand that it is quite normal to be "stupid" in cases like this.

Well, I hope this post adds something new at least, even if it doesn't really make someone "discover" that some things that your partner does is really odd and bad for you, even though you don't realize why nor see the real motives behind those actions. For me, I have been convinced that "planet N" is not capable of sustaining healthy life. And I will leave it at that.

Anonymous said...

I want to reply to Budapest.. Your comments were almost identical to my own experiences. I am an accomplished woman. I have successful careers across a number of professions, tertiary qualifications at a high academic level in science and psychology, financially independent etc etc etc.... It wasn't until I personally and emotionally experienced a narcissist that I actually began to understand my childhood of origin issues with my own parents. Both of my parents had attachment issues. Both of of my parents needed to be parented. As the eldest child in my family I took on that role with all the responsibilities and a strong need to please... Plus a desire to understand, help, and be curious of others who presented as "damaged". I was a sitting duck to sabotage my own needs and take on the needs of a narcissist... Somehow, after years of being told that I was not good enough to be a girlfriend, wife, mother etc, (despite my accomplishments way beyond my family of origin), I married a man who gave me unconditional love.. we had two children... Then I sabotaged that and walked..... I walked into the arms of a man who I beleived would give me all the things I was missing.. the only problem was that my emotional needs were those of my parents.... I walked into a situation that was just repeating their own attachment issues and I was yet again taking responsibility for somneone else's emotional needs. Talk about history repeating itself. I went for years trying to work out what was wrong with me... Then it just seemed to coalesce into this insight.... Like Budapest. I had to experience a relationship with a narcissist to start to understand my own origins. It has been painful... But worth it.....

Anonymous said...

I wrote a comment in here on Feb 4th and have re-visited this site many times and it has been so helpful. It is sad to read all your comments, but at the same time good to see the similarities and therefore not feel so alone. In the last 9 months a lot has happened, the best being the support I have received from authorities, friends and web-site hoster. So I would like to tell you about this and hope that you too will seek and get this kind of support.
I found he had registered 2 websites comprising my name, but they were so far inactive. I took contact with the hosting company, sending documentation of his threats and within a day he received a communication from them saying he cannot have those sites, and ordering him to remove a site that he had previously made for me but had "added to" in an embarrassing way. He HAD to do it, and he was incandescent with rage - but that threat seems to have gone now.
The police have worked terribly slowly, and I really didn't think they would do anything. But eventually at the end of May they contacted him and told them to leave me alone. This was just a "friendly warning". He later visited the police station and was read my statement and has apparently given them documentation of "all my lies". Although he has more or less stopped contacting me, he continued to send letters and mails to my boss and best friend and my children. Pleading his case and asking them to make me understand that I had got it all so wrong..... Probably the worst of all was an 18 page letter sent to my Mum of 90 yrs. Luckily it was intercepted by my sister before she had really started to read it. He sent one more after that, too. Unforgivable.
During the summer he has sent many e-mails to my boss taking credit for several of my successes. Luckily my boss has had two narcissists/psychopaths in his family, so he recognises the type and is of great support. But he is getting very tired of it, and tired of me being only "half there" in my head.
The N was here in this country for 3 months in the summer and despite police warnings, was at times hanging around the housing estate where I live. Saw him twice at open events where it was an embarrassment.
Anyway, today's situation is that an official restraining order is being sent to him, forbidding him to make any contact whatsoever with me. The price for disobeying being fine or even imprisonment. I don't know what will happen - when I saw one comment here about not dealing with shame, it made me worried that he will try to clear his name. I said as much to the police lawyer; her reply was "well, he won't get far with THAT, to say the truth" which is a certain comfort.

Anonymous said...

I wrote a comment in here on Feb 4th and have re-visited this site many times and it has been so helpful. It is sad to read all your comments, but at the same time good to see the similarities and therefore not feel so alone. In the last 9 months a lot has happened, the best being the support I have received from authorities, friends and web-site hoster. So I would like to tell you about this and hope that you too will seek and get this kind of support.
I found he had registered 2 websites comprising my name, but they were so far inactive. I took contact with the hosting company, sending documentation of his threats and within a day he received a communication from them saying he cannot have those sites, and ordering him to remove a site that he had previously made for me but had "added to" in an embarrassing way. He HAD to do it, and he was incandescent with rage - but that threat seems to have gone now.
The police have worked terribly slowly, and I really didn't think they would do anything. But eventually at the end of May they contacted him and told them to leave me alone. This was just a "friendly warning". He later visited the police station and was read my statement and has apparently given them documentation of "all my lies". Although he has more or less stopped contacting me, he continued to send letters and mails to my boss and best friend and my children. Pleading his case and asking them to make me understand that I had got it all so wrong..... Probably the worst of all was an 18 page letter sent to my Mum of 90 yrs. Luckily it was intercepted by my sister before she had really started to read it. He sent one more after that, too. Unforgivable.
During the summer he has sent many e-mails to my boss taking credit for several of my successes. Luckily my boss has had two narcissists/psychopaths in his family, so he recognises the type and is of great support. But he is getting very tired of it, and tired of me being only "half there" in my head.
The N was here in this country for 3 months in the summer and despite police warnings, was at times hanging around the housing estate where I live. Saw him twice at open events where it was an embarrassment.
Anyway, today's situation is that an official restraining order is being sent to him, forbidding him to make any contact whatsoever with me. The price for disobeying being fine or even imprisonment. I don't know what will happen - when I saw one comment here about not dealing with shame, it made me worried that he will try to clear his name. I said as much to the police lawyer; her reply was "well, he won't get far with THAT, to say the truth" which is a certain comfort.

Anonymous said...

Just a bit more....
So - there I am. Still afraid for what he will do, but more angry now, and that helps. But most of all - thank you to all who have supported me. Without them I would have cracked up totally. I still have huge concentration problems and do not perform as well as I should at work. My memory has got so bad I am almost wondering whether there is something even worse creeping up on me. I have just started going to therapy to try and clear my mind of all that has happened, with the hope that I can start to live more "in today" and not worry so much about what has happened and what might happen. Hopefully there will then be more room in my head for worthwhile things, both work and play. And hopefully I will be left alone by N from now on, to live my life without all the threats and worries.
It is hard work to go through the authorities and I am frankly amazed that they have acted on my behalf. It hasn’t been easy to deliver the necessary documentation, including e-mails on very personal aspects. I was advised at one point to make a note of everything that happened. This was very important advice- You think you will remember, but you don’t remember everything. So I have a diary especially for this and update it each day. So each time I have sent a new sheaf of events to update the police dossier, I can be sure it is complete and correct. I keep all e-mails, record all SMS messages, letters, phone calls etc etc. This is IMPORTANT if you are going to get help from the authorities. It is also important for yourself – you can see the enormity of what is going on, the harassment is REAl, and it is unacceptable. You cannot be persuaded that it is is all in your mind – because it is in your diary, and you have a record of it.
Thanks to everyone here – we support eachother.

Brandy said...

Thank you for this..I have a sister that has caused me a great deal of pain. Maybe this will help me separate myself from it all. She has nearly destroyed my family. Her constant lies and manipulation have become to much for me to ignore. I will warn everyone not to confront this type of person. I made that mistake and my sister has been systematically going through my family and friends telling lies, and stories to cause me pain. I was always told it was sibling rivalry- but this level of disfunction is something else. She blogs publicly about my divorce and custody battle. She got married on my anniversary, said she didn't know and then told everyone I didn't go because I was jealous of her. She had a baby and named him the same name I picked for my unborn son. She mad up stories to her friends about my brother's murder, claiming she had to deal with the aftermath of it all. I was the one who had to go into his home and manage his estate. The list goes on. If I say anything about it, she has no idea what I am talking about. This abuse has gone on for years. I hope someday she gets help, and will accept that she cannot control me. I have tried to move on. If only she could do the same things would get better.

Anonymous said...

After learning about narcissist from the internet, I try to search the best way to start " new life" and glad I find your advise (coincide with my instinct). Make me even more stronger to freed from the narcissist although he has cut me 80% to pieces.

I am from the East part of the world, hardly find best answer for the problem that I'm suffering. It is even worst when my narcisst partner is someone with PhD, which is very honored in my society.

They all the same from all parts of the world. I believe narcisisst has no place in any religion. God will punish them at the end of their life.

Anonymous said...

Thank-you. This information has been so very helpful for me and the healing process. I was married to a narcissist for 25 years. I was totally destroyed from the verbal, mental and emotional abuse I suffered for years. As a result I was reduced to a woman of low self-esteem. I never felt good enough. I always felt ugly and self-conscious of my body and overall appearance. As a result I was afraid to leave him, I was afraid of what people would think, I felt I would be a failure but most difficult of all is I loved most members of his family as my own. As a result of the years of his abuse and mindfucking, I eventually became an alcoholic
because I didn't have the courage to leave yet I couldn't stand the pain and so turned to the bottle to numb the pain and help me endure my own self loathing for not doing something about my situation. I hated myself for allowing my three sons to have live through it as well. They were the brunt of his control and abuse towards them. I remember back in 1997 one of my sons crying after one of his episodes with me telling me to divorce him, I didn't. Finally after years of alcohol abuse, getting sober and then relapsing I couldn't take it anymore as I knew if I didn't get out I would die. I thought of and attempted suicide many times but always chickened out because I knew deep down inside I wanted to live! As sad as it may sound, the relapse and my misery as an alcoholic is what gave me the courage to divorce him. He didn't think I would do it until I went and got myself an apartment. I didn't even have a job but didn't care! As I was moving out he was on Match.com looking for women, even showing their profiles to my girlfriend. What was very strange my girlfriend told me they all resembled me. Before the final decree of our divorce one of them became his girlfriend and still is. It has been a constant battle to stay sober at times due to photographs I would see of him and his girlfrien with my kids, what would have been our 26th anniversary, my birthday and the holidays. My therapist diagnosed me with Battered Woman Syndromn which is a sub-category of Post Tramatic Disorder. I have struggled with fear of my kids loving that woman over me, jealousy over his girlfriend ( God knows why ), extreme depression hurt as I could not understand why he could love this woman they way I always wNted him to love and treat me. However, through educating myself about narcissism, as harsh of a reality it is I have been slowly learning to let go and accept. What has really helped me too is the support and love from my three grown sons and believe it or not his mother and most of his siblings. He has pretty much disassociated himself from his own family except for holidays. I want to say to anyone who is in a relationship with a narcissist please consider getting out before it is too late. I spent far too many years in emotional and mental pain and life is way to short to allow someone else to be in control of your happiness. It does get better over time! I have an ex sister-in-law who was married to one of the brothers and she rather be poor and barely making ends meet like she is today then to be with that man. She was key to my making my decision to leave. I thank God I took her advice. I have learned to forgive myself and allow myself to heal. It took 25 years to get to the state I was in so it is going to take time to undo the damage done to me as a human being. I realize today that I am slowly getting back the person I used to be, even stronger than before!

Anonymous said...

Can someone please help me, the Mom of an adult N who lives with me and won't leave.....He was in an accident 10 yrs ago, lives in pain, but miraculously is well enough to travel every couple years. He has a very high IQ & I can't get him to leave. I'm 65 & exhausted.

Anonymous said...

i lived with a narcissist for 25 years and the mental, physical and emotional abuse are without words. He has moved out and I am slowly picking up my threads - but I have been wrung dry. I totally agree with all the 10 ways to freedom because each one is mind-blowingly true.

For years I never understood what was wrong - the sexual abuse was frightening to say the least. On top of it, he hates social interaction - I could never understand why. Even if I spoke with my kids - he would go hammer and tongs.

I would like to know if N's are sexually over powering - (he would beat me up if I rejected him)?

Anonymous said...

Great post. Fortunately, I am not in a love relationship with a narcissist. My situation is work related. Your advice works for that environment as well. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

I was in love with a N. Thank god it was only for 10 months. We got engaged and were going to get married. But he was so suspicious, he lived 2 hours away and wouldn't let me come to his house
or work and would claim it was because I had so many responsibilities that he was just helping me out. Thats what started the abuse, I questioned him and he lied, my gut told me something was wrong but he lied and I believed it. Then he would change the focus to me, why wasn't i opening up to him, why don't I tell him all my problems, why do I look at other men, what is my sexual history. constant questions he would ask! And then say it was how he got to know me by asking, but he interrogated me, humiliated me, made me feel dirty like a whore. And all I did was think if he understands me he will be fine I just have to explain. I thought I was losing my mind. He twisted everything with his words and I believed I could make him come around to seeing my point of view. He was jealous of me, of my past relationships, he said he was never insecure like this with anyone except me, of course it was my fault he was insecure, and I knew it was a red flag but I could love him enough to show him the truth, I could fix him. Oh boy was I wrong! He continued the abuse, it got stronger, crueler, he had excuses for everything! and I believed it, for awhile...but I questioned and questioned him until he couldn't do it anymore, he either would be exposed or he had to end our relationship, and he ended it. Not the way I wanted, by telling me the truth, that he lied oh no...making me think I was crazy and unreasonable. and you know what? he lied again and got me back for 1 week, I fell for it again! But that was complete devastation and by then my therapist directed me to narcissist on the internet and I found him described so exact to the tee it scared the crap out of me. But you know what and to all you women and men out there I realized it wasn't me, I was right all along with all the questioning I was not crazy and you aren't either. Get out now! You need your life back, I'm starting to get mine, I couldn't function before, and now I can do the dishes again and go to work and not have anxiety attacks and its only been a couple weeks. I will get through this and so can you!

Anonymous said...

I did a search on narcissistic behaviour and I came upon this site. The search came about because I decided to look into my bosses personality and how to deal with it - she definately fits the bill - but I know I can manage that, cos I don't buy into her bs, but I needed to know that it wasn't attributed to my socalled insecurities, (according to her) - I do know my own mind when it comes to her, and I understand with another earlier poster to this site about having a sub culture at work. We all know what she is like and just put up with her, but hate her evil, manipulative ways. If she has inroads into our lives through shared info with her she exploits it to the maximum, I've learnt the hard way to be vague with her and change the subject and be as discreet as poss. However, I am in another dilemma with which I am trying to find answers for...my partner is in jail for domestic violence on me. This is the second time..that in itself should scream the danger signal to me. But I haven't found a similar story to mine. His violent behaviour has only come out on the odd occassion when he has been blind drunk;and he only gets stupified like that when he is hanging out with his mates. Normally, he is the most loving affectionate man. I love him immenseley and I believe he loves me, but this demon comes out when he's drunk. Could someone please tell me if they've had the same experience and maybe I can share other traits with them to help me identify if he is an N and where to go to from here. When he is sober, he worries continously that I am mucking around on him because I work long hours and I go away often - I am not seeing anyone at all - he is careless with money and he constantly needs doubletime assurance that I love him. Sooo, is it his subconcious N behaviour that comes out when he has gotten violently drunk? When he is in that state, does that show his true colours? I have been with him for three years, prior to that, I was with another man for 22 years, who in hindsight had N tendancies, he truly was a control freak. My current partner doesn't appear to be controlling, in fact, he is really encouraging towards me most of the time...tell me honestly if I am just fooling myself, I would really appreciate others opinions. When he has sobered up, he has no recall of what has happened prior. I am just looking for answers. Yes, my gut does cry out to me sometimes, but then I get confused in myself, because I tell myself that I am not as loving and caring as I could be towards him. Gosh.

Anonymous said...

thank you so much.
for 16 years i have felt like i was trapped in a cage with knives pointed at me and slowly one by one they would stab me. Now I feel like I have found a key to this cage.
It's a corny thing to say but I feel a sense of freedom, something I have never had before.

Pam Miller said...

For the comment on April 7, For anonymous. Think about the possibil8ity of delusional disorder (jealous subtype) in your mate. These people are always looking for something that confirms their belief that you are cheating. If they come home and see an open window they are convinced that your lover has just slipped out that way. If your hair is rumpled it is from your lover's caress. If your face is flushed, if you reject their attention, if you have no ice cream in the house. Nothing will dissuade them from this conviction, and when they drink it lowers their inhibition to the point where their fear of losing you is overcome by their rage at your cheating on them. It is a very dangerous thing to be the mate of one of these characters. They can and do kill when in these rages. Get counseling and get away, but be very, very careful. Once you're away, get a gun and learn how to use it effectively to protect yourself because it will be years before their rage subsides.

Anonymous said...

I have just recently as in six weeks ago, learned that my X husband of 12 years of marriage and 6 years of divorce is an N. I am still trying to grasp it all. This website I quite accidently stumbled on as I was looking to see if there was such thing as a support group. Fortunately for me there is :).

This information, that my X is an N, was learned after months of therapy. My counselor, who has been working with me currently for about 8 months and has worked with me in the past also, has met my X three times so she's seen him in action.

I have been trying to understand why my X is so damned controlling and I've been asking people for years for help but never really sure of what kind ofo help I was asking for. But one day my counselor and I were talking and I said something and she said, "have I ever told you I think that X is an N??" We'd talked about the disorder before she met him but the moment just then and what we were talking about and it all just fell into place. I literally was without words as I could hear the pieces in my mind 'chunk chunk chunk" right into place. And I said, another friend has mentioined that possibility too....

Suddenly, the walls came down and I saw the LIGHT again! What a profound sense of relief finally giving it a name! And it fitting all those things that didn't make sense! wow!

My N litally had me from the go. I meat him he was nice and charming and came from am good family and was educated, in fact I met him in a college course. He worked with special ed aadolscents. He looked really good! And I thought he was fairly good looking but others might think him a bit of a geek. I'd just come out of a divorce merely weeks before and it wasn't a bad divorce and my first X really was a decent guy but I didn't think I mattered to him and I thought that my N really liked me and made it seem as if I mattered to him. And he told me lies from the beginning. The first I can recall was about him having had a sexual partner before me and then years later, he admitted I was the first. HMMM the first need of him, as I"ve learned, is to look good, to look like he knows what he's doing.

We went on to marry just a short 10 months after we met. My counselor said that this was one of the hallmarks, they move into relationships fast, ie so people don't have time to figure out who they really are. Then it changed. The romantic flowers and comments became few. Then I got pg with our oldest. This should have been my cue to get out!When I had morning sickness and went to the doctor, not knowing is was morning sickness, he called me to see how I was and I told him I had something I wanted to tell him. He demanded that I tell him them, over the phone and when I did he became enraged! Another hallmark, they need to be in control and he hadn't planned for this baby so it was NOT ok! My N's own characteristic are: the need for control, and he and ONLY he gets to decide how things will happen and when and if I don't follow it there's hell to pay.

I could go on on with examples! b ut I don't think I get that much allowance for words on this thing:)

Anonymous said...

More thoughts, maybe on of you can give me some insight as you've dealt with the N's mannerisms and behaviors. Many people that I have told them of my recent discovery aren't really sure what to think. my parents think I'm making up an excuse for his behaviors when actually I'm finally explaining them.

My X and I have three children, and they have been caught in this mess of a divorce. We've been separated for 6 years, will be starting 7 years in about 10 days. And I had no idea at the time that he was an N but it would have made the whole process MUCH easier if anyone had known. He, after not really having any interest in the children for years demanded that he have them 50/50 why? control over me mostly. And trying to work out the logistics of the marriage settlement he kept having it changed and changed to suit HIM. But at the time we couldn't understand why! again so he could have control, to have the upper hand. And every aspect of the divorce has been under his control because he had it written up that way. I am at his mercy, well it feels that way anyways. And I WANT out! How do I get away? My counselor says I am stuck, I should stroke his ego and flatter him so that he'll feel good about himself, he'll feel important which MAY lead to him giving me what he wants. This is all new to me, so does this actually work?

I am still reeling from the confusion that this monster has created and the abuse that he has inflicted on me without me ever eveni knowing it. They have no empathy and I constantly worry about my children. I want full custody of them to get them away from him. And I already have a very rocky relationship with my oldest and I'm sure that it's some of my fault, and a good portion of what he's done or hasn't done. She even has some behaviors that I question whether they are of an N's behavior. Any ideas/suggestions?

kmo said...

To anonymous 4/16/11:

I am in a very similar situation. By leaving the abuse and control, it cost me a business partnership with my soon-to- (hopefully)-be-ex and my job. I am fortunate to have a supportive father, although I am 51. We were married for 13 years, together for 17 & have 2 kids. He uses those kids as pawns and still blames me for everything wrong in his life. Obviously, I have to stay in touch- hence no contact doesn't work for me), but I alomost died 10 days ago from the stress. Had a complete neurological shutdown and I always thought nervous breakdowns were psychological- no, they are real physical onsets. When I told him I was leaving he promptly had an affair and exposed my children to it. My oldest son, who is 13, has now become physically and verbally abusive to me and wants to live with his Dad. I'm trying to save him but fear for my youngest daughter's (9) safety and emotional well-being.

He is pissed that he lost control over me so is being a real son of bitch with the divorce. He won't saign the settlement agreement, keeps changing terms and is forcing me to take him to court. Like you, I just want to be RELEASED. I kept all of this secret for years so the only person that believes me are three friends and my father. He is so charming and funny and likeable that no one knew my dirty little secret. The last blow came on our anniversary when he retracted the few gifts he gave after forgetting it all day long. Then he back handed me when I tried to flee the verbal abuse one night. The affair was just icing on the cake. There have never been any apologies- just blame. I see my son following in his footsteps and am terrified.

I try to get to group seesions at a local women's reousrce group but he arranged his schedule to basically make this impossible for me. I moved out- we are separated- but he does frequent pop ins and still goes off in rages. I am trying to placate just to get the divorce final but it is a game I am soooooo weary of playing.

Hang in there!

kmo said...

To Anonymous 4/16:

Oh! And did I mention that all of my former "friends" & neighbors have aligned with him and they all think I'm "bat shit crazy."

Ya think?

kmo said...

My theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpNWSW49IBM&feature=related

And I didn't even mention the foreclosure, retirement fund wipe out or hiding of funds/ripping off me & company part.....Yet he still calls & texts constantly. I just want to be left alone and be free from tyranny.

This website is VERY illuminating- thanks, Invictus. I've found some insight finally!

kmo said...

Apologies- Invicta- this has a long, strange and painful journey. But I am up to the task. Saving my children from this syndrome is first and foremost but near death experience also a wake up call. Of course, that is attributed to "my unhealthy lifetsyle" as if anybody is around to support me. Or witness. Real growth curve here, no matter how savvy, how intellectual, how intuitive. So glad I found this......

Anonymous said...

Hi Invicta

Thank you so much for your website and information about how harmful Sam Vakin's site can be.

I think it is very brave of you and helpful to see you opinion on the internet. It validates others.

I too was drummed off his site after I tried to discuss the fact that the malignant narcissist is mentally ill and far from all powerful with supernatural abilities to control other normal people, as Vaknin claims.

The narcissist is a very insecure and weak minded individual with grandiose visions of his own very non-spectacular achievements.


Another site that is very harmful, to those who have been abused by a narcissist, in my opinion, is:

http://outofthefog.net

It is also run by non psychologists.

The site is owned by someone named Gary Walters who is a photographer who continually brags about his photography, posting pictures of his work and fishing for compliments almost daily.

The guy's work is decent but rather average wedding photography. Nothing creative or unusual. Just the same ole, same ole, wedding stuff.

Still he brags about how great his own work is. His bragging is oddly a rather obvious narcissistic trait. It's kinda' weird given the site is supposed to help people recover from interacting with a narcissist.

All of the moderators have been victims of narcissists, according to their own claims.

One moderator has aspergers syndrome and is incredibly sensitive to hearing any documented information about the syndrome. She is also is easily triggered by normal comments and she appears to take offense.

Typically if the moderator with aspergers does take offense and a properly vetted comment with an appropriate link to EDU information that supports the opinion, the other moderators will gang up on person who posted the link and publicly trash him or her.

Another moderator named Haggis, s rags about how the therapist treating his wife, suggested that Haggis, too, had a part in the issues associated with the relationship.

In true narcissistic fashion, however, Haggis a moderator ragged about how ridiculous it was that the therapists would even suggest that Haggis had a problem, as well as his wife.

No one at the out of the fog site has any psychiatric training and most have been the victims of narcissistic abuse.

These are hardly people competent enough to offer support to victims of narcissists.

About six months ago, a very knowledgable women was banned from the site for posting Edu Links about aspergers and other Personality disorders, by one of the moderators named MoGlow.

I briefly saw a message flash up from this woman saying that Moglow had been banned and the moderators quickly deleted the post.

I always enjoyed this women's posts complete with supportive links that showed her information to be backed by current psychological hypothesis or theory.

Still, in typical narcissistic fashion The women's knowledge seemed to annoy the moderators, particularly if it proved one of their own UNSUPPORTED opinions as being inaccurate in the eyes of professionals.

I stopped visiting the site there after.

Very sad. But it is good to find a site like this that points out that one needs to be careful about these sites.

Anonymous said...

Correction to my above post.

It should say that Moglow (the moderator at http://outofthefog.net had banned the member who posted links to legitimate psychology sites and EDU sites.

Moglow, supported apparently by the other moderators, quickly deleted the women's post containing the links. And the women's follow up post that stated she had been banned by MoGlow.

They also accused this women of diagnosing people. Something the moderators do on a regular basis, without providing links, but refused to admit that they are the ones making diagnosis, without even bothering to back up their opinions.

The moderators all seem to think that they know more than properly accredited psychology professionals.

The moderators at http://outofthefog.net also changed the rules suddenly to claim that no links were allowed in posts. This rule did not exist prior and thus the women would have no way of knowing that the rules had been changed.

Changing rules spontaneously to meet one's personal agenda is another narcissistic trait. ...just sayin' and I apologize for the rant.

It's just that I agree that many of these sites can be quite harmful or at least just plain worthless, particularly when they ban people for simply providing factual information backed up by links that support and verify the information.

Anonymous said...

Hi and thank you so much for the advise. I was married for 10 years to a Narcissist. He was and still is abusing me and my children. He made me mentally ill (diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder in 2009)At that time I had 50/50 custody with him and due to my mental illness I gave him my boys to watch while I got better. In Oct 2009 I came back healthy on medication and self sufficient. I have a Dr.'s note saying I am more than capable to take care of my boys, and he and his Mother won't give them back to me. They tried to take all my parental rights from me by using my illness as proof that I am an unfit mother. I am still struggling with his abusive ways. I am still on that rollercoaster. I am contemplating a restraining order against him & his mother (whom is also very abusive towards me). But I have fear of retaliation. Especially for the children. He makes them pay by P.A.S. (parent allienation syndrome). Any advise?

Donna said...

I just became aware of this condition. I was married to a narcissist for 38 dying yrs. Yes, I was dying a slow death. Even though I was young only 19 when I got married, I was smart enough to know that he wasn't normal and I continued struggling with my own emotions and began to question myself of maybe I was expecting to much when really all I was expecting was a loving, nurturing relationship. I didn't realise that what was natual for me was impossible for him. In a desperate struggle to maintain my sanity, I didn't realise that such a person exsisted and he subtlely destoyed me mentally, physically and spiritually. I only wish that I knew more about this and the affects it has on us before starting the divorce so I could have been perpared. Unfortunatley I made the move while I was still sick emtionally and physically and as a result lost out financially, but I had decided before making the decision to finally get the divorce that I would rather eat bread cumbs with a peace of mind then to have a steak with torment. It's only been a year and I'm seeking help now to recover and heal from a life time of this abnormal abuse. I have to say that there is a certain kind of freedom that comes to you when you find out that their is a name for this type of person. The brutal callous behavior is devasting to say the least. There is abuse and then there is the narcissist abuse that one could never explain unless they lived it. This experence has caused me to learn more about narcissist and to hopefully spare another women from years of pain. He won't change he will only get worse, the longer they can get away with it the worse they get.And we just continue tolerating more and more, we are no longer hurt by their behavior because we are already, dead to self, numb and living with the pain of the past and trying hard to move on out of it but we can't because we are not emtionally healthly, stable or strong enough.We all need to find the encouragement in knowing that we aren't crazy, stupit, ugly, etc. I'm rising to a little level higher in knowing it wasn't me and working on getting my confidence back. I hope the same for all who our on this site, Good Luck

Faith said...

My Faith in God is the only life saving grace I have. This type of 'relationship' will Cyclone you into a World set apart and unfamiliar.

I have been married for almost 6 years to one of the most accomplished Sociopaths in existance, but then I'm sure we all feel that way. I have tried for years to make sense of the senseless, tried to reason through the Betrayals, Lies and Humuliation, all the time wondering what caused Me to accept such abusive bahavior.

I am now in the process of divorce. We do not have any children together and have not lived together...ever! It just 'worked out' that way in the beginning (easier for him to continue other relationships) When I started to see a pattern of lying, cheating and steeling I made a decision to keep him away from my teenage daughters. Thank the Lord I had enough sense to protect them.

He is the owner of a Mortgage Co. and owes over a Million dollars in personal debt. A large amount to his only daughter. He ruined my credit by putting Real Estate/ Auto Lease in my name, then filed Bankrupcy- for the 2nd or 3rd time. These people have a history of bad credit and legal judgements.

This type of person goes after loving, trusting souls- because they seek the attributes they do not possess themselves. 'You complete them' :/

After learning of his continued relationship with a woman he was seeing during one of our 'breakdowns', I now know that I will always be put in the position of mistress.
I have filed for divorce but have not served him yet. We have not spoken for 2 months, although I was graced with a long winded, pontificating, self exonerating email, telling me how everything is of course- My fault.

This is harder for me to process because I work with the woman he has been seeing. I tried to warn her and let her know that she will have the same sad wave of destruction come upon her. She seemed to 'get it' at first, but I know my husband has been calling her and sending her emails, tightening the noose. (he's quite attractive, charming and tries to make you Think that your life will be better with him in it)
I am angry as this makes the entire process of 'letting go' that much harder!

I know I must learn to forgive in order for me to be released from this bondage.

I am so very thankful to all of you who have taken the time to write of your literaly, Life Threatening experiences. I too have been on the edge so many times, not wanting to go on...as it is so hard to imagine a new Happy Life.

I have 4 wonderful dauhgters, 2 still at home with me. (and my first granddaughter due in October:) I am trying to make this final break in order to regain some of my dignity and strength. I need my daughters to witness my life... After the healing.

I would greatly appreciate someone who has reached 'the other side' to please help give me the added encouragement I need to move forward.
What is the best way to have him served, but not create hostility. Should I send an email letting him know that I'm filing or just send the papers? I would prefer to have no contact with him.
He keeps asking me to respond to his stupid email...maybe having him served divorce papers is the best response:)
This disorder Thrives on winning the fight. Don't want one. He can have his adultress, but it probably won't be as exciting now that he doesn't have to play the Hide and Cheat game.

I must close now... take a long walk in the fresh air, pray and seek some semblance of balance and peace:)

Ps- I can totally relate to the woman who refers to her abuser by the first letter-K. There is something empowering in reducing them to a letter not a name. All of my emails are labeled 'past'... that helps too:)
Positive projection to our new future!!!

May the Lord shed His light on the Truth...help Protect, Guide and Strenghthen us All! Amen

Anonymous said...

Wow...not I don't feel like such a fool.

Thank you all for sharing your stories...and for this article. Hopefully, this will make it a little easier to heal and move on...

Breaking Free said...

I'm not sure if anyone will read this but I guess I need to see my own pain in my comment. I too have been with a N for the past 6 years off and on. I even moved out of town to get away from him started feeling better and then he drove all the way to where I was living and begged me to come back. I did. After 3 months he told me it wasn't working for him and asked me to move out. I ended up having to take a lesser paying job and have been struggling to take care of myself. I see so much of myself and him in these posts. Last night, I made him a wonderful dinner had his house cleaned, fresh sheets, did his laundry just like he likes it. He came in and I said one thing and he jumped all over me not mentioning anything about the dinner or the clean house. Everytime I try to pull away from him he lures me back. Again, I am seeking to move out of town again because this is the only way I feel I can leave him for good. Although this time there will be NC so he can't beg for me to come back. I am currently on antidepressents and xanax because he kept telling me I am crazy and so I believed him. Never taking me around his family or friends because he says I make everyone uncomfortable and look at people crazy. He even went as far as buying me a "promise" ring. Knowing full well just another dream he is trying to sell me. I am reading everything I can to learn more about this mental disorder. I was in therapy last year to deal with my mother's death and now I am going to go back and work on getting rid of him and his hurtful ways altogether.
This too shall pass.

Leanne said...

To Faith: I am one year on now from total severance, no contact at all. Life is starting to make sense again. I realise I have post traumatic stress disorder and so even after leaving the N it is not the end of the journey because they are still inside you. Every time I had a decision to make I chose the one that ensured i maintained no contact. I would urge you to make all your dealings with him impersonal, no dialogue or correspondence. We have to let go of the need to explain, to justify, to beg for agreement or reason. They will never think that way and that is why we have to get them out of our lives. We have to let go of them utterly, on every level, walk away and have the strength to never look back.

Anonymous said...

Wonderful! Such solid advice. Thank you so much.

Anonymous said...

So funny. I call my "N, " "K." I wonder if it's the same guy. Knowing him... probably. Sure does sound like him.

Anonymous said...

That is a great post, however i find that alot of times the issue of fearing the narcissist does not come up. I dont know if its my specific case, but i was born to an abusive and maybe narcissitic parent where i endured many years of physical and emotional abuse. When i met my spouse it seemed to good to be true (which it was) at the end he is a full blown Narcissist and he is also physically and mentally and emontionally abusive. I am realizing now all this after 30 years of constant abuse and controll. Now i fear him just as i feared my mother, is there anyway to get over that. Please keep in mind that i have very limited resources becuase i cant even use the bathroom without announcing it. That should give you an idea of my situation.

Anonymous said...

Given to my wife 6 weeks ago, after nearly 14 years of marriage:
You have asked me to write an agreement about divorce.
It is not an easy task, we can skip all the things I have said in the past 13 years, because it has always been the same; that I am sorry; that I love you; that I cannot even think about a future without you; that I always tried my best to please you; have always supported you, of which you denies most of.
But, as you said, you have had enough of that; you do not want to hear it any longer; accepted.
So you now want a divorce because I don’t understand you and I don’t give you emotional support in respect of your spirituality. Well, I have also come to the conclusion that this marriage doesn’t work, however I have different reasons or believe why that is so.
The most important thing in my life is the children, and what used to be my family; you and the children, their wellbeing and future will take priority over anything else.
For the last 13 years I have been the one bearing the brunt of your outbursts and tantrums, everything that goes wrong in your life it is my fault, I have painfully accepted that for the sake of giving The children a chance to grow up in a family with a mother and a father. It is my strong believe that if I’m not there any longer, you will take out your frustration and anger on them. This would give them a very bad start in life, not only a bad start it will influence their emotional feeling their whole life.
Whether you realise it or not our children’s thumb sucking is a sign of in-security and lack of self confidence, they are always afraid of you; of your discipline; of your punishment. I am sure that you sometimes in the future will say to your defence that, that it is the way I was brought up; in the same way as your mum defend herself, it was the way she was brought up and how she brought you up.
You are not able to give them unconditional love, it is love on your terms, they cannot embarrass you, but you can embarrass them. Both of them make it clear they are afraid of you, and if they don’t repeatedly tell you that they love you, you will be angry with them.
Respect can only be achieved, never demanded.
I agree to a divorce subject to a cooling off period of 6 months and that I get sole custody of the children until such day that you can show a letter from a certified psychologist that you’re are undergoing treatment for your feelings of always feeling the need to be appreciated and loved; for your lack of empathy towards your loved and near ones and to understand reality and the consequences of your actions, that this treatment is showing signs of improvement in the appreciation of yourself. Ask anyone if they believe it is normal to use it as an excuse for your anger to claim that I forced you to visit my sister for 5 years ago. And that if your stepdaughter (my daughter, 5 years older than you) hasn’t convinced you otherwise you have flown back to SA leaving without any care in the world how the children felt. All because of your ego.
When it comes to financials, you have been running your own business for 5 or 6 years and you should be able to support yourself. We can divide the furniture and paintings between us. You have repeatable said that you don’t need anything from me, you can manage completely yourself.
Well, you can start now.

Anonymous said...

It is so reassuring to see all of these posts about Narcissists/Sociopaths etc. It seems that most of these posts are from the ladies, but being a man I have experienced most of these things from the other side. So, while it seems a more common problem with the men, it is not exclusively a man's problem.

But I have taken solace, and good advise from all of these posts.

Anonymous said...

Thank you. I can't even begin to express my gratitude for this wonderfully freeing information. Your stories resound with the same stuff mine has slowly bogged me down with. i thought i was strong, but began to realize how weak I'd become. I've cried more than I laughed in this relationship and now with this information, i am going to be free again and will rapidly regain my balance. It was specifically the simple line that described it as brainwashing. Then, I knew, without a shadow of a doubt that's exactly what had happened. Thank God - it's over. It's like a huge war just ended and I'm all bombed out, everything's destroyed, but the country is free. Now, to rebuild and never, ever, look back. Thank you again.

Anonymous said...

After reading read all of these comments I have had such a realisation. Although it was my counsellor that first told me I was in a relationship with a narcissist, reading these posts has conformed it. Thankyou all so much for your sometimes very sad, painful but hopeful stories. I was in a relationship with N for 8 years and have also been left feeling completely devoid of sel-worth, self-respect and trust in men. From reading all these stories and from making the repeated mistake of returning to N I now know that having nothing to do with him is the only choice, Luckily we don't have children. Just one of many lies. For four years he blamed me for being old and barren, when in fact he was unable to produce children . Something he had known all along but lied to me about. The violence, the drinking,the stinginess (i would pay most of the time and on birthdays he would give me something from the $2 shop or nothing at all)On Easter he would give me a chocolate egg that had passed it's used- by -date. I used to feel lucky to get that. I used to think that I must be crazy for accepting these crumbs, but some part of me felt sorry for him because he had been abused as a child and I thought I was good for him. Not contacting me for days then bombarding me we hundreds of texts to get my attention again. Never committing to me. Calling me a whore etc and the list goes on. After many sleepless nights I thought that I was going out with a monster. 'Evil' is how I would describe him.I have never met someone so devoid of honesty in my life. At first I thought he was just a pathological liar. Now I know he is a narcissist. Possibly a psychopath.I have cut all contact with him to give myself the chance to rebuild my life, hopefully meet someone caring and honest and rebuild my self-esteem. At times I miss him. Especially the physical relationship which was amazing, but always follwed by his bizarre cutting me off for several days. He was good-looking, charismatic. But I am really grateful to have come across this site. What someone said "It's like the lights are on but no-one is home" describes N perfectly. Sometimes it felt so much like love & other times It was a living hell.I used to think how can I love him so much when he treats me this way. But then other times It felt as though he loved me. Now I know that if I cling to that illusion I will experience another 8 years of abuse.

Anonymous said...

So much of the reading up on psychopathic behavior and the signs of it helps me. I try desperately to follow through on no contact and then she writes and I cave in again. She has cost me in so many aspects of my life. I blame myself for everything. I'm the prick who did this to myself. The sheer hold she still has on me is unreal. I MUST follow through on NO CONTACT and not give in. Why is this so hard to do despite all the blogs that say this is the right thing to do to heal?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous Nov 13...
You wrote " I blame myself for everything. I'm the prick who did this to myself" no...no...no... this is where you must start on your road to freedom. It is NOT your fault. N's are often charming and have many good sides to them. That is the trouble! You spend all your time weighing the good against the bad and in an odd way blaming yourself for not thinking they are totally wonderful. You feel guilty and mean for seeing their odd sides - yes? They are like another race - you will have seen that from all that is written here. Three years after separation, with dreadful hassle and personal humiliation and in the end a court restraining order.... I can STILL hear a piece of music and dream back into the good-side of how it was! But don't ever...ever...ever even toy with the idea of going back!
Good luck!

Anonymous said...

I'm in a bit of a bind here. 20 yeas ago I broke up with my N after I joined the Army. Before this he was always talking about how he would join if it weren't for any number of reasons from non-existant helth issues to his mother and eventuall to secret government experiments. When things started going poorly and the really bizarre lies started happening was when I started looking for a way out. I had been manipulated away from friends, emotionally abused, and completely duped by this guy who had once been charming, intelligent, and absolutely wonderful.

Fast forward 20 years. He is still popping into my life on occassion. I've stopped trying to "hide" on the internet because it really is easy to find someone anyway. We have maybe 2 degrees of seperation because of some of our interests. He hasn't threatened me or done anything to warrent a restraining order (I tried). Every time he does this he says he needs my forgiveness to clear his karma and that he wants to try and make it work again! This from a man who told people I had died in a training accident and later lied, saying he had a brain tumor in order to get people to feel sorry enough for him to give him my contact info. The MRI's he produced showing the tumor were real...they belonged to his brother. It's actually gotten to the point that I can predict when he's going to start trying again. I put out a notice and anyone he contacts immediately ignores him. While I'm not hiding, I'm careful about vetting people who try to contact me or join any lists I'm on. Is there anything I can do to just make him stop? I've long since stopped being scared of him...I'm just annoyed. But to be honest, if he were to show up on my doorstep tomorrow I would kill him just to make sure it's done.

Anonymous said...

Hi all, please read this. This is one of the best sites I've read, and I think I've read them all. I'd like to thank the author for using s/he rather than just the male "he" that is usual in most sites. There's no doubt the male N does predominate, but what a difference it makes just that little bit of understanding that the female narcissist is out there and is just as dangerous. I was with mine for 2 and a half years and was engagedto her and had bought a house with her. I'd never loved someone so much, in retrospect the love I got back was my love for her reflected! I paid every bill (including her car, which i wasn't allowed to drive) and she just paid for food, and even then she complained about that arrangement! I remember she got me a tattoo on my arm as a present, thinking back, i was just a possession to her, and the tattoo
was her way of modifying her possession to suit her, like maybe you would get a new paint job for your car! If your financially entangled with a Narcissist they will screw you un-mercifully during the split! You need to come out fighting, but it's not as hard as it sounds, these people are emotional idiots, like the author of this site says, information is power. Read up on "manipulating the narcissist" . It's important to note here, you are not stooping to their level, you are only fighting for your emotional and financial survival against someone who betrayed your trust and love. During the split and during the financial negotiations flood them with narcissitic supply, it's easy, (and for us victims, let's be honest, we done it the whole relationship), just keep telling them how beautiful, clever, wonderfull bla bla bla, etc etc. It makes things so much easier, and you might just come out of it with a fair deal.
It worked for me, and there was the added bonus, that at the end (after years of betrayal and false promises), I was the one who was in control! As for me now, I'm strong and I'm not bitter, and I'm going to give my love to someone who deserves it! I'll also keep my tattoo as a reminder of my (as if I need it) "walking on eggshells" "rollercoaster ride" with a pychopathic narcissist! Remember cliches only exist because their true. Be strong and come out fighting!

Anonymous said...

Reading this will probably save my life. I have been controlled by my friend who is a psychopath/narcissist for exactly a year now. Our sisters met on an airplane and found out they both had siblings who were the same age, attending the same university, and from the same hometown. When we met, he was everything I could ever dream of. I immediately fell in love. Things turned ugly quick. There were probably hundreds of red flags this past year, but I refused to accept them because I had become emotionally invested in him after we started having sex. The abuse I suffered mentally, emotionally, physically, and financially, breaks my heart. I always feel like I'm the bitch when I get angry at him. He has a way of making me feel sorry for him. He knows that my biggest weakness is my ability to forgive no matter what. I am a social work major and I allow people to have excuses for the way they are. I made excuses for him every day. Everyone told me to leave him. I'm lucky to be alive. Looking back, I get ill thinking about how everything in our relationship was a complete lie, especially because everything I gave to him came directly from my heart. What hurts the most if finding out that your best friend was playing you this whole time, and worse, actually trying to hurt you. For women out there going through this, I pray that you figure out early on what these men are doing to you emotionally and mentally, because no matter how much you truly believe that they love you, THEY DON'T! That is one of the hardest things I've had to come to terms with. It is all fake. It is all a game. You must get yourself safe first and foremost, and cut him out no matter how hard it seems, no matter how badly you want to be him friend and hope for him to come around. Its not going to happen.

Liz said...

I married a man 1.5 years ago and when I read the signs of an N and everyone's posts I get a sick feeling. We met through a personals ad. We were living across the world but I was coming back to the US and thinking about where to go next. He lives in a beautiful place I had always wanted to live. He was so eager to meet me and was planning our life together immediately. When we finally physically met I thought he had some "eccentricities" but he seemed to think the world of me (ie. lovebombed)and pursued me relentlessly. We got married and after many months of back and forth across the world I moved to where I am now because he wanted to come here, too. Right after I arrived he began to withdrawal. He decided he didn't really want to live here afterall, and when I got upset he stopped all communication with me for five weeks. That was hell. I was newly married, in a new job, and in a house we rented together by myself. My friends and family said let him go, you made a mistake but it is not too late. You can do this. I have been sucessful and independent for many years. I raised two children on my own, went through grad school, built a career, etc. Now he has come back to a certain degree, but always under his terms. He doesn't want to live here. I found a job where he is but it is for far less money and no real security. I asked him to write wills together so we would know we were taken care of and he tells me has redone his will but doesn't want me to see it. His daughters have estranged themselves from him as have most of his family. His sister is the one who told me his a narcisist! I think their mother is too, and she has enabled him and excused his behaviors all his life. He is 60 years old. I know in my gut this is the time to cut my losses. The more I push to have a life with him the more I set myself up for exploitation and pain. He is totally blind to that. He thinks he "loves" me and can't understand why I am not happy? It is such a mindfuck because he just doesn't think like me. Oh, well...

Rainbowangel69 said...

I've been reading all about NPD for a few weeks now. To start with I was in shock that these people seem to have no idea what they are or indeed the damage they are doing. I first found this sight as I have a very dear friend who is in an abusive relationship,she is lost,depressed,dissasociated from reality,believes that the whole big mess of her and her families lives is entirely her fault...because he tells her so. I've showen her my findings on here and she read for over an hour, but still she can't see that it's him and not her. I will continue to help her in any way I can, but not to the detriment of my own little family. I've also realized that my own mother fits the traits of NPD, I'm now 42 and as young as 10 years old I knew that she was different from other mum's,she never praised, hugged,encouraged or told me she loves me. I'm fine about all of that as I realise that she's incapable of love. She's charming and loving around her friends. When she sees me with my 10 year old son, being loving and careing, kissing and hugging him goodbye (when he'll be back soon) she visably cringes and says "oh come on" I question myself if I actually love my mother? I don't like her, I will continue a minimal relationship with her,I will not allow her to damage my son,and yes I will allow myself to love her but only because she's my mother. She will never change and that's a shame but that's just the way it is. I'm here for my friends but all I can do is love and support. I just wish that my dear friend could love herself again because she's a beautiful,honest,careing intelligent woman. She's been with this monster for 20 years and she's only 38 so the struggle away from him is desperatly hard, I believe she'll survive because the alternative is horrific.

Anonymous said...

Dear All.

I did it. I last saw my N on December 29th after seeing him for 6 months. Thank fully during those 6 months i dissappeared for 1 month. And in between those other 5 months proberbly saw him once a week. I think this helped me not to get too attached. Any way i am really happy that i left him and not the other way around. So i stroked his head like a puppy before i dissappeared. He called me in January 2012 to talk me into seeing him. But, i did not. It was at the end of January that i decided that he did not deserve to speak to me on the phone. Since then when he called i ignored because speaking to them is like seeing them in the flesh. I have decided that i will not speak to him until i have healed. And have built of my self esteem and confidence. I have decided to put myself first. Although i have dated him for 6 months. It has left me emotionally in a mess. I nearly had a break down. Thats why i think those of you who have dated a N for 1 year, 2 years, 5 and 10 and 30 years are strong! I suggest you maintain NON CONTACT with the them for at least more than 2 months. That way your brain can begin to detox them out of your system and begin the journey of independence. It is possible. Look at me. When i look back i think what was i thinking. I'd rather be alone and have a clear head, then, have company with confusion and chaos. I hope you all heal. I wish you all the best.

Katherine said...

It comes to my mind now, the song 'The Taker' by Waylon Jennings. Look up the lyrics. It's 'him'!!!

Anonymous said...

I was with an N for 2 1/2 year and am surprised I survived that long. I started qeustioning my sanity. I put up with so many mind games, it drained me and wore me down. Anyways, it ended in Nov 2010. I pretty much tried a NC with the person but found it hard to not answer the calls. The N reentered my life when things bn her new bf went south quickly (as i knew it would), manipulated me into letting her back in by buttering me up. Her father intervened for my own protection. Anways, I then blocked the her calls but in a moment of weakness, initiated contact for the first time which was DUMB. Now that she no longer needs me, she's singing a different tune. I guess all of those kind words were really just the N talking. How could I be so stupid. Soul mate, no. My revenge, moving on for good. It would be pleasant to see thee own life crumble as she always self-destruct but I just want to forget and feel indifferent again. My one problem has been I keep forgetting what I went through and believe the lies again but not next time.

Anonymous said...

I have had an encounter with a N on internet, on line only! It took some eight months, off and on, as I tried to escape, sensing lies, manipulations, but he always managed to glib talk me back till now he mocked at my final break off! Before he did absolutely everything to mantain his image of a 'perfect gentleman'! My ass!

Anonymous said...

This is the best self-protection article I've read on the subject. Most psychologist-generated info is way off-base. Also, the term "narcissist" is thrown around freely these days by people who haven't got a clue what they're talking about.

True narcissism is not a case of your boyfriend wanting to go to the ballgame with his buddies instead of to a movie with you. Rather, it's a case of tantrums and tears and blaming you for everything and anything every time he doesn't get his way or something isn't right in his life.

It's a case of picking a fight with you the day after your mother died because he can't stand not to be the focus of the universe.

It's a case of being blindsided by unprovoked and often nonsensical attacks.

It's a case of never being able to reason with him, and never being able to win an argument with him.

It's a case of he's always right even when he's so completely all wet that it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

If these things sound familiar, then you are dealing with a true narcissist. Your best bet is to leave. If that isn't possible, you need to arm yourself with as much information and as many usful/useable tactics as you possibly can. This article is a good start.

Anonymous said...

My mother was a narcissist and destroyed my self esteem and by the time I became an adult I had no sense of self at all. I could not recognise, let alone understand how I felt about anything. I just felt pain and sensed I was being bullied and manipulated. My earliest memories of her was that she was a wonderful mother most of the time, but when I started to grow away from her as a young teen - and was less easy to control - she became different or else I started to be aware of what she was all along. After all, when I was younger, she threatened suicide god knows how many times; but now I got endless ultimatums the threats; blamed me for every ill in the family; overtly favoured my brother over me to a ridiculous degree; called me a troublemaker, a moneygrabber, a whore and wished I was dead a few times too. She even attacked me with a knife, tried to strangle me and put earwigs under my bed too. Her jealousy was the worst thing. My fiance bought me a gold necklace for christmas and she promptly got my father to buy an identical one - but just a bit thicker and more expensive looking.

Anonymous said...

This site is great.

I was married for 23 years. I thought that we were in love and best friends. He just had a bad temper and some strange behaviors. Turns out that he was living a double life.

We moved together to another country because it was the ONLY way he was going to be happy. I quit my job and didn't speak the language or have the right to work. He started acting withdrawn and cruel. He said that one day I would wake up and he would be gone.

Eventually, I left. He crashed and burned, ultimately ending up in a rehab for sex addiction. (That can't be good, I thought when they told me. It wasn't.)

Based upon the reality of our relationship, as opposed to the fantasy that he was always selling to me, I ultimately divorced him.

Better late than never. I'm older and wiser. Onward and upward.

Anonymous said...

Narcissist and pychopath ste the same thing!

Co-N said...

OMG! this is my life. I have become a co-narcissist over the course of 3 years. It is coming apart, and I see whats going on. *builds self up* Thank-you for this site. These comments alone have put some things in perspective for me. It seems I have more drama coming my way before it's all over.

Anonymous said...

Narcissists use and abuse he is dependant on you currently hence why he can cut his mother offjust like that make no mistake he can also do that to you, these people dont love .... Know thAt

Anonymous said...

OMG! This is so my husband!!! I was married to him for 12 years before I finally left. He's really done a number on me with the brainwashing. I really questioned whether or not I was a good wife, mother, friend. I was completely responsible for his happiness, and when I failed it was my fault...my selfishness, my self-centeredness...that caused it. For years, I walked on egg shells because whenever I relaxed, he would find someway to disrupt it. When I was thinking I did something to make him proud, he always found someway to let me know it wasn't good enough. He played on my fears, and kicked when I was down. When I got fed up, he would always show me remorse, and apologize, and then reel me back in.

I really got to see the narcissist in him when I got fed up last year, and I didn't yield to his attempts to show remorse. Last year, he pretty much bullied me into agreement into something I didn't want to do, and then tried to bully me to be happy about it. When I got irritated, he flipped out and said, "you are the worse fucking thing that ever happened to me!!!" That's when I was like, I can't do this anymore. He will never change. He's not concerned the least bit about my happiness. I was just there to cater to him and make him happy. I told him that I was just gonna move back home with my parents, and he told me, "if you take my fucking kids from me, I'm gonna fucking bury you!" So I moved to another room and shut down emotionally. I didn't yield on my stance, until he went and flaunted his affair right in front of me. The 1st time he did it was on our 12th anniversary when he stayed out all night. I, of course, didn't like another women taking my place, and so I tried to get him back. He rubbed it in my face so hard! He blamed me for pushing him away, and I took responsibility. He acted like he wanted to work things out with me, but what he was actually doing was punishing me. He acted like this woman was so much better than me. When I was under the impression that we were working things out again, we started having sex again. But first, I asked if he had unprotected sex with her, he said he didn't. Then, I got a severe bladder infection, and I knew instantly that he lied. He admitted it to me via text while I was alone in the ER at 3 am. I came home that morning and I went ballistic. I cursed him out, and when he tried to leave, I blocked him because I still believed at the time this man had a conscience. I just wanted to get him to understand the magnitude of hurt and risk he put me through. But he still was able to manage to turn it on me.

The day I tried moving out, he attacked me in front of my kids, and later that night in front of my best friend. I reported him to his job a month later (he's in the military), and he successfully made me feel guilty about it. Also, because I threw a pillow at him the night he choked me, there were charges against me as well. So ultimately, I recanted my statement, and he got away unscathed.

To be continued... 1 of 2

Anonymous said...

To be continued... 2 of 2

So I did the only thing I felt I could do was distance myself. He made it hard. He didn't respect my boundaries. One day, my oldest let him in the apartment while I was showering, and instead of staying in the living room, he came into my bedroom, then into my bathroom. While I was showering, he noticed I had a text from a guy, and subsequently threw my underwear I was going to wear into the shower with me. Then tried to kiss me when I got out of the shower, while saying, "I should be hating you for reporting me, but I don't. I can't stay away from you." I stood my ground and told him to get out.

So after I knew he would never respect my boundaries, I did the one thing I said I'd never do to my spouse, psychoanalyze him. However, I did it after he called me a psychopath. I subsequently texted him a listed of psychopathic traits, and told him that it describes him best. Then, I started going into his childhood, and asking him why does he always need to feel validated. What didn't he get in his childhood? I know his childhood is a sensitive subject for him, and I always tried to stay away from it, but for my own sanity, I needed to find a way to push him away...to make him feel vulnerable to me. His response after my psychoanalysis was, "if you can't respect me, then we don't need to talk about anything else but the kids!" GOAL!!! I responded, "finally, now you can respect my boundaries I tried setting months ago."

That was a couple months ago, now he's being all extra nice, and my initial reaction is to be nice back, but I know ultimately he just wants to squirm his way back into my space somehow...maybe to hurt me again just for kicks or 'cause he's fearing that his current relationship with "the rodent" isn't as secure as he would like.

Whenever I feel like having compassion or I start second guessing myself, I come to places like this to remind me of what I've been through and how clever, convincing, and manipulative my husband can be. Oct 23rd is our divorce date! I can't freaking wait! The best decision I ever made!

Anonymous said...

Almost everything that is written here sounds exactly like I would have written it my self. I am a great thinker and do very little reading but when I searched for information to clarify my conclusive thoughts while trying to figure out of my wife of 33 years, this article nails it exactly. I said and have done almost everything you wrote. It is very strange how it took me all these years to figure out her personality but I finally did. And surprising enough, I love watching various documentaries. The other night I stated clicking on many I have seen before about serial killers. Now my wife is no serial killer and would never do that I don't believe. However it rang a bell with me while I was watching the one about Ted Bundy and it clicked and the revelation knowledge was as clear as if it were instantaneous vision. She is a a narcissistic psychopath. Her feeding desire is to control an outward normal happy life, while all these years she has lived a double life messing with other people and some of them (if not all) were just like her. Our story is a long 33 years of tales, but it started the very moment we were married, and some of the times I knew it and just went on in life and gave her the benefit of the doubt. But other times we had some serious falling out, but never violent and always I remained commited to loving her becasue I wanted my marriage to be a fairy tale one, but it just was not for me. I always protected her because I felt her actions reflected badly on me or I was less of a person so she needed to find someone to fill in whatever I was not. Anyway my sad story is pathetic and I am on my way to freedom, however it is now going to have a great effect on many others unfortunately. But it's not my fault, I tried to get her to come clean 6 years ago so I could move on with my life. Now I am in the same place but I figured out a way to make her confess some things to me..Problem is she waited five years to tel me and I am aggravated that I waisted more time with her, but what can a person do except take where your at, and go forward. one last thing you mention doing some things special for other people, ironically that has always been my desire and I have bee doing that lately. I genuinely care about people and someone else would have been lucky to of had me because I know how to love completely and for life. However that ,may be impossible to some degree because I really will have a high standard and I refuse to take anyone elses dirty laundry. It would have to be someone very special with a sweetheart toward people (which my wife is definitely not that).

Anonymous said...

UNBELIEVABLE!! This epidemic of Narcissistic men INVADING undiscerning women's lives is CRIMINAL! I too have suffered from the hands of a Narcissistic man for over thirty years, not knowing WHAT I WAS DEALING with until recently. Especially when Mel Gibson went nuts on his girlfriend and it was publized and brought to the forefront. Many of the stories posted here and others remind me of my life and what has happened to me while raising my two children who, thank God, are grown. But it has been a longgg journey and I am trying to pick up the pieces of my life, realizing I was dealing with a calculating, deceitful, pathological liar who SECRETLY despised me for not giving him attention or not providing WHAT he needed all these years. These men are DAMAGED GOODS and there is NO FUTURE with them. Their objective is to CONTROL and lure you into their lives to LEVERAGE THEMSELVES and leave you in despair. Those who recognize the charactetistics, please get out. Much prayers and blessings to everyone out there, trying to find their way back to reality AFTER living a nightmare.

Eileen Hall said...

I found you today when I needed help most. Thank you all. It is great to know i'm not alone.

I divorced my narcissistic husband last year after 40 years of marriage. I am frazzled, mentally, emotionally and physically. He's a charming, well know sports person and no one knew what was happening at home. I became so ill and desolate that I had planned my funeral. That was the only way I thought I could escape.

I only discovered he was a N after a year of therapy to reclaim my self-esteem, heart and sole. He nearly destroyed me. Fortunately my son who is 37 understands his father well and distances himself. I'm so pleased he hasn't been affected.

Today I was looking for a way forward. He is still constantly in my mind. I went No Contact a week ago. I must stick to this for any,hope of being a,normal person again.

Like many other partners of N's I am a strong woman, well qualified, capable and popular. I'm still trying to understand how I tolerated the abuse for so long.

For anyone reading this. Do not waste your life, health and happiness by delaying getting away for the N. You cannot help them - but you can protect yourself by RUNNING as fast as you can !,,, and don't look back because he will be waiting for you.

Bless you all for the support. X

Anonymous said...

Anon enabler:

Hi to all....I've been in a relationship with a woman with Narcissistic tendencies for about 8 years now. She is attractive, always impeccably groomed, and well-mannered (in public). My weakness, I think, is that I do not like women who are overly needy, and she fit the bill completely, since she is not clingy, or needy, and does not depend on my constant attention. Little did I know, that this is because of her emotional void.

Later, I found, she is incapable of empathy, and shows all the warning signs of NPD, the sudden rages being the most unpleasant. It's like one cannot believe that this is the same person that supposedly loves you, who is now humiliating you, and treating you with such utter disrespect. It's beyond belief or comprehension. I've been through the process of making every excuse for her behaviour in the book. Even her indiscretions are eventually resolved by ME being the one who apologises! This is a classic sign, and a warning to all those out there still under the "spell" of the Narc.

I have caught her out on numerous occasions in bold-faced lies, especially with regard to flirting with guys....dating sites, email, secret meetings...etc. Her phone was always completely "off-limits" and ALWAYS with her. I made excuses for her, saying that she just didn't trust me enough to be open to me about her male friends, that she should trust me more....etc,..

I have dumped her more than a few times because of catching her in lies about male "friends" and sending sexy pics of herself to guys on dating sites. She says she does it when she is "bored'. This behaviour is now largely something of the past, and I decided to wait it out, and see if her new-found faith in God would change things. However, it was not long ago that she sent another random guy a pic of herself in a skimpy dress showing her legs. He replied inappropriately, and she said that she had "learnt her lesson".

She NEVER contacts me first, or calls me first. It's always me. I stopped doing that now, and she immediately starts being all sweet and luvvy again.

I cannot bring up ANY topic for dicussion about our R. It immediately goes from talk, to FIGHT. She erupts in anger, and sees ANYTHING as an attack on her. No matter how to try to approach the topic, no matter how small or inconsequential the topic is, no matter how nice you are, NO MATTER WHAT. She is incapable of discussing something rationally, or with love, or with empathy.

I caught a glance at her while this was happening now recently, and she was actually visibly shaking in a childlike manner. Her lower lip was shivering, and she looked like a cornered, scared little child. I was shocked, and my heart went out to her. At the same time, I suffer the brunt of her angry outbursts, and each times it destroys me little by little.

Here's a good example of how unpredictable she is: I visit her at her flat, and we settle down to watch some telly. Some silly reality show. I watch it with her, although it aint my thing. I give comments here and there (it's a dating reality show), and I ask her "so what do you think" here and there and so on. She just mumbles "mmm" occasionally. So I say "babes, why you not talking me......"
Well, does she explode and HISSES at me: " you know i like to watch in peace without talking...." ( this should be in CAPS as she is shouting this...). Such VENOM, aloof disrespect and HATRED almost. As if she were POSSESSED!!!!

I could go on, but you get the idea. I have now made up my mind to leave her, though to be honest, I am still struggling tremendously with it. I still love her.

The reason why I am posting is because I need to see this in print, to encourage myself to have the strength.

Good luck to all of you fellow-sufferers.

Peace

Anon_enabler said...

Anon Enabler again

Just had to add more and more as i recall the past years. I was reading another comment in which someone said that he had come back from buying drinks and his N was chatting up guy and exchanging numbers. Ditto. Only she didn't get to the numbers. I came back from drinks and she was chatting to a guy who was HOLDING HER HAND and chatting into her ear...and she was ENTERTAINING IT!!! I should have run then. I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. When I confronted her, she just breezed it off, ( she didn't know him). I asked why she tolerated him rubbing her hand, she denies he was doing this! WoW! Yeah, what an idiot I was.

My instinct was to take her home right there and then. and return to the party with my friends. But I am a "nice" guy, never had something like this happen to me, and to my shame, also didn't want to be embarrassed.

She also had the habit early on in the R when we were still clubbing, when we left, she would walk out way ahead of me, as if ( i figured out later), she didn't want it to be seen that she was "with" me. What an idiot I was at the time. Each time she would sweet-talk me, i would cave in again and again.

Anyway. that was early on in the R, we don't really go clubbing anymore. So I can't really see what she's like in that environment these days, which means I can't really tell if she's changed in that way at all. She's a really good dancer and she used to go out frequently with her female friends to clubs without me. Cos thats just who I am. I've even been baby-sitter to her 8-yr old and sponsored her evening out when she wanted to go out with her single GF's. That she enjoys the attention of men I have been aware of from day 1.....but being the naive dude that i am, thought that that was where it ended. I have however, caught her out chatting to guys I do not know, and making hookups with them. Lies and lies and lies.

As i said, i no longer have to face that because we don't club anymore...but whats the guarantee she has actually changed? She has SAID so.......... she says she is no longer that person, yet the narc rage remains...the avoidance of emotional intimacy remains.....how much more of the narc is still in her?

In January of this year she was texting a random guy from a dating site WHILE we were out on a Sunday afternoon date! Does someone do this merely for "light entertainment", or is this just who she is, and will remain forever? Besides, do you send a random dude on a site a SEXY PIC of yourself when you in a R with someone? I don't think so. Does she need this constant validation from other men? where does it all end.

Other "classic" symptoms she displayed: she has actually referred to herself IN THE THIRD PERSON!!! This is before i looked up narcissism. WHat a giveaway.

She is truly Jekyll and Hyde. She is the sweetest girl when she wants to be. She flares up easily and constantly around her children as well....yet she cries like a baby when her ex-H is ugly to her. She actually displays all of the things she accuses him of in her marriage to him. As if she is on this whole revenge mission against him. The abused becomes the abuser.

Anon_enabler said...

Well, it's now Day 6 since leaving my Narc GF. It was uneventful and unemotional. I was surprised by her level of involvement in the discussion. She was listening intently, she was involved in the discussion, and she even said that she knows there is stuff she needs to work on!

Yes, I am mindful that this might just be her attempt to "reel me in" again, but this would not have worked anyway, since I had prepared myself and made up my mind FIRMLY beforehand, much as i do love her.

I told her honestly and candidly why I was leaving her, short of telling her she was a Narc...told her unprovoked outbursts of anger, and inability to discuss issues without becoming defensively angry etc etc were not good enough for me. Told her I did NOT want to live like that.

She told me again that she hadn't had a longer Relationship with someone other than me ( didn't seem to count her marriage ), and she didn't know how to have emotional intimacy or discuss things. (?)She said yes, she agrees that perhaps we need a "break" (as she put it). so she can work on stuff. She seemed genuinely devastated.
Other than that, there's been nothing from her side.

No calls no messages nothing. Curiously, the day after we broke up< she changed her profile picture on an IM app to a pic of her with a "heart" edited in.........for my benefit, or for someone else? I can't tell. Doesn't matter anyway. In the past she has been a serial flirter and date-site user, so anything is possible. If so, then that firms my resolve and vindicates me in my decision even more.

I've been pretty good with contact: no contact except i needed to pick up something from her which i did. We were both polite. SHe asked how i had been, i did too. And that's THAT!

In the past, after a fight, I was always the one to make a move to contact her first, so this time she's in for a looooooooong wait! LOL.

I feel relieved, I feel good, and I feel sad for her. I hope she reflects and reflects and reflects and sorts herself out. Must be lonely not being able to share your innermost thoughts hopes and dreams with anyone.

On the other hand, I am better. I do not wait anxiously for a call or reply to a message. I do not hope that the next discussion we have will have her more involved, and sharing more. I do not walk around waiting for the next thunderstorm eruption in the middle of a calm day. I do not walk around wondering what inane bit of my behaviour while produce a harsh scolding as from a parent to a child.

Free at last!

Anonymous said...

I have cut off all communication with my narcissist ex, its the best feeling ever. I seperated from my ex in 2009, I stopped loving this person due to all of his secrets while we were married, the stories he told about me to many women on the internet while we were still married were unreal. This was a person that paid no attention to his children, didnt even speak to me, but just sat infront of a computer for the most of our marriage, watching pornography and slandering me to other women, who believed he was an angel. He even went to the extent of telling these women and his family he left me because of his other children. NO NOT AT ALL TRUE, I stopped loving the narcissist. It also came to light that he was a serial cheat, what a big mistake I made by falling for his charm in the first place. A person that comes across to many women on the internet, as the most charming, honest and caring person they could ever meet. For the past few years the things I have endured from him, his friends, who I must add have never met me, and also his family, particularly his father, he seems to be the one that pushes his adult son to extreme narcissism levels, is unreal. Oh he has never told a lie, thats all down to me, everything is my fault, he is not to blame for his extreme behavior,this has even gone to the extent where his whole family cut off all ties because my narcissist ex brainwashed his family along with his fathers help that I was the narcissist. They even cut off all ties with a child to carry on their abuse towards me, I have become well known across the internet over the past few years, if you knew my name, well you would soon see. On a positive side, I am glad that I met this person, well Im not actually sure this person should be called a person, but never mind. I have learnt alot about a narcissist behvior over the past few years. Their constant abuse towards you, they are not cabale of taking any responsibility for their actions, they always blame others for their child like behavior, the fist above your head when they lash out, they are not brave enough or adult enough to say sorry when they know they are wrong, they suck people in to believe they are the perfect person and all new females are special until oops hold on, they blame all of their ex's for the problems with not being able to have a good healthy relationship. I always would retaliate and defend myself against this narcissist and his father narcissist, but came to realise, I am waisting my time, these two blood narcissists are ill, they need some serious help with how they live their lives, they believe abuse to female anywhere is this world is right behavior, to stop their behavior towards myself is to cut all ties, dont feed there illness by retaliation, dont feed there need to better their unbalanced lives by ruining yours, DONT FEED THEM, cut of all ties, communication etc,. they do not exist, is the best feeling and most satisfactory thing I have ever done, to rebuild my life and my childs life. I know this sounds a little bad, but for me the most positive outcome for this narcissist to realise he has an issue with life, (is when his narcissist father who controls his own sons actions by making him a narcissist himself,) is no longer around, to control his older son, and then his son, will one day hopefully be set free from this illness that his narcissist father inflicts on his narcissist son. Maybe he will learn to change, when he is by himself to better his life and relationships.

Anonymous said...

Wow that is my life! I've already decided to cut & run they will NEVER change. I am lucky as a have a wonderful sister in law that has only just approached me about her husband being a N ( They are brothers) their mother is also. We have both separately have made a get out plan and both brothers have started to look for their next N supply. Knowledge is a great help on this condition when ever it's getting to difficult I read more about N and it gives me strength. I am fat and ugly ( I know I'm not) he says he can only have sex with me when drunk but now has decided he has gone on strike to punish me ( suits me!) He started to insult me in public but he has stopped doing this as he has now been barred from two pubs & has started to lose friends because of it. He is complaining that everyone tells him I am lovely but obviously they don't know the real me. One male friend told him that if he treated his wife the way he does she would leave him & his wife told him she has never met anyone so self centred. He knows that he's made a mistake insulting me in public so he now just does it in the car and house. He is violent but calls the police when he's beaten me? He has a record for hitting me but the police NOTHING about N !!! Decided to sort it myself do not rely on them they believe every lie that is told it is still a very male world. I wish all the luck to any one suffering similar read and use these sites it will give you strength and power in order to get out and live a free and lovely life BE STRONG .

Anonymous said...

So my ex nar was with his new gf and tried to gt her to commit and played the whole nice guy thing but she ended up doing the same exact thing to him that he did to me. I told him instead of comforting him that karma is a witch lol so I guess he met his match,another narcissist. She drove him right back to his therapist who he stopped seeing. He had a meltdown about the whole thing.he said I was being mean for saying that and that he changed a lot. But he's still rudeto me but treats the new gfs like gold but pple have told me that they leave because they sense his neediness. Why wasn't I that smart? Oh well I am going no contact ,he is just calling to cry about his gfs and doesn t care what's going on with me.only asked once and if I really said anything about my feelings he would ignore me unttil he was having problems with his gf. Irealized my adviice helped him to try and manipulate her back but she was a bettter narcissist.

Anonymous said...

I do. I just said yesterday that this is my opportunity to grow up and "cherish the no". Meaning I can't always get what I want even if what I want is "a nice normal life"with people who are unable to do "normal". Old post but still wanted to reply!

Anonymous said...

That's where I am. I believe he is living a double if not triple life. And I am feeling like Jane Goodhall observing the gorillas while living among them, but at a safer distance. It is helping me to trust my recovery. Detatching with love because my heart needs convincing that it isn't about me not being "the one" and my head and eyes are helping my heart see that noone is "the one" not even himself.

Anonymous said...

Do they always try and connect back. I was discarded like rubbish and gave my heart and soul. Now trying to heal but panic at the thought of running into him. I am doing nc
What are the chances he will try and connect
I feel like i have been beaten and left for dead
I need to concentrate on myself and i will survive this ordreal

Anonymous said...

This disorder is so toxic. I never knew much about this disorder until I started researching about abuse and power, control and neglect from a spouse. I wanted to know why. Crazy how you I looked for answers because I never really got one from him. I can't say he is diagnosed with this, but he has the majority of these characteristics. I totally get the unattached, lacking empathy, not giving back in the relationship, the lies and the abuse, mainly emotional. This is a very unhealthy way to live. I appreciate the enlightenment, the stories and above all God. I also saw some of these traits in myself and are now questioning if I have this. I sure hope not. It's almost as if these types of peoples are parasites. They will suck everything they can out of you because they don't know how to truly love, give and care. I've confronted my N about the way he mistreats me, neglects me and doesn't care about my feelings and he even tells me he don't care. It never has resulted in any healthy behavioral changes and I really feel it never will. I have been married to him for almost 6 years and he told me today he wants a divorce. I don't know how in the world I'm gonna make it because of health and financial issues on my own. But, I am ready to move out. I am ready to move forward and let go and don't look back only to visualize a lesson learned. I have strived to encourage him with healthy growth in himself repeatedly. He has been to counseling, anger management, in th mental facility and nothing seems to increase his ambition on becoming healthier. He is filthy in how he lives and I thought this would change, maybe some but not much. I have been so caught up in both of our roles and begging for attention, encouraging him to grow, and such to the point to where I am physically worse off than ever before and neglecting myself. I don't even know if there is real hope for me getting better. I need help. For others out there who are looking for answers, on a way to help out, or what is going on. Just remember the times before you met this person how strong and independent you were. The friends you had. The smile you had on your face. That you can get back to that again. It may be hard, but it's worth the effort, but the N will never be worth it because it is hard for this type of person to change. There isn't a certain mental drug or certain courses they can go through that I know of. It is much better to leave the situation and move on and find you again because I too have lost a sense of myself and I'm looking for myself again. I feel like it's harder to do because I still live with him. And, I do sense a vibe, a negative vibe from him. Like a sickness with him. It's creepy. I want out. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

He says he love me but we dated 10 years and he is Always on dating sites and even meets ppl of cl. I never been in love with another before or even cheated I tend to try talk it it out. He won't talk he says I am yellin when I am not and then he get very quite almost as if to cry but never does and always said he was bored and wanted that connection. So I always try harder like I said every e months he on a dateing site it seems and about he every 6 months he has a magic friends who intives him out I am not dumb I always figure it out later the whole thing. This time we have a baby I am getting too old he on cl looking for men. Now he won't talk at all about he it besides he denies he met them but he took pic there saying he was at a guys house
But he denies it too he won't be open I am giving up I want to be marry and open with someone I don't know what wrong with me sometime I think he is right because he got to escape and I never did I never was that brave I.was always loyal.and true ir stuipd. What do you think is he one?

butty said...

The guy my girlfriend left me for dumped her for someone he works with after casting the win ex back spell which my friend introduce me to! the win ex back spell works fast! Of course she called me and pleaded for my forgiveness and now she always want to be with me,she is always attached to me now trusting everything i say to her. I love knowing I had everything to do with this winexbackspell@gmail.com for i will keep shearing the goodness until i am satisfy.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this. Very good advice, and I'd like to add on to it.

As a person living with a fucked up narcissistic father, here is what I learned:

Their words are worthless and superficial. Many times I can argue with the piece of shit and he will show "remorse" and say "I'm sorry", and when I drop my guard he viciously starts scolding me again. Imagine that: saying sorry and then scolding someone seconds after that. Would you call that really being sorry? Words such as "sorry" "I love you" are usually genuine when coming from a regular person, but remember this isn't a regular person. This is a person that has a disorder that makes them unable to empathise and feel shame. They are never sorry, simply because they truly believe they are not wrong.

2. Learn to detach yourself.
The most important aspect of narcissists is that they try to make you dependent on them. They manipulate you and can do whatever as long as it makes you unable to live without them. This is why so many stories of people losing money etc. appear when you search narcissistic relationships; it is because they will take control of your possessions and your money. They aim to control you in this aspect. Always keep your distance. Your money is your money, never let yourself be controlled.

Second aspect is to detach yourself emotionally. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. Narcissists have a lot of fun playing with your emotions. In fact, because they have no empathy or remorse, they can manipulate you like it was their second nature. Remember you are dealing with a superficial person. Everything you see is on the surface; deep inside they don't give a shit about you. They are called narcissists for a reason: they love no one but themselves. Therefore, do not allow your emotions to get the better of you. They are good at blaming the victim, making themselves look victimized when they are actually the aggressor. Don't be sucked into the drama. You control the situation by how you REACT to it. The best way to counter this is to show no emotion. Narcissists hate this. They want to stir up emotions to control you; an emotionless face is a huge power over them. Be as boring as possible.


Of course, this is to be used when you are stuck with the narcissist. In my case, I am stuck with my father and plan to move out as soon as I get qualifications and a stable job (I am currently not 18 yet).

The BEST THING you can do is to LEAVE. LEAVE and go as FAR AWAY as possible. BUT if you can't, then in summary you should stay DETACHED, understand you aren't dealing with a normal human, and make sure your SELF-ESTEEM comes from INTERNAL FACTORS, NOT EXTERNAL FACTORS. You don't need the narcissist's approval to have self-esteem. Let it come from within yourself, from your own unique qualities, and LOVE YOURSELF. Because as a person who used to be a people pleaser and had no love for myself, I can assure you that a person with no love for himself will only open himself up to abuse and manipulation.

Finally, stay strong. Me and my mother, who has been hurt significantly more than me by the narcissist dog, are still struggling to survive this ordeal. I pray for all of you out there who are suffering from the same situation to stay true to yourself, and love yourself.

REMEMBER you DESERVE MORE THAN THIS. You are STRONG; don't let someone as pathetic and animalistic as a narcissist take your inner STRENGTH away.

Anonymous said...

what is when you are having a discussion with husband and you are always left feeling confused and feeling as if you have done something wrong.Having to listen to him tell you how selfish and greedy you are and all because he never has any money and he feels that you do this is his own doing HE WILL NEVER take any responsibility for anything if I QUESTION ANY of his actions or his choices Iam interogating him ALWAYS plays the victim even with our children belittles me and undermines me infront of our kids have spent hours goin thru what feels like some kind of mental torcher where iam left in a crying deprressed hopeless mess when I was feeling perfectly fine before it started does any one recognize any of this behavior as symptoms of something????

Anonymous said...

I was in the same boat as most of you. I found this guy who I had so much in common with...was falling in love. We also shared a working relationship, so we spent a lot of time together. It was great for a year, although he was always moody. I figured it was just from getting back on his feet from a bad breakup. But then things started to get weird where he'd blame me for things--anything, from something misplaced (his doing) to saying he didn't like his hobbies anymore because of me. I would constantly say to a friend, "I wasn't doing anything and then suddenly he..." and you can insert "blamed me for something" or "changed moods" etc. It got worse when a girl started flirting with him, sending aggressive texts about wanting to take off his clothes, pics. He would barely look at me, when I would try to have honest and real conversations with him he would put it on me. Of course I started to believe it was me, or would make excuses for his behavior, or believe his comments that her texts were nothing or that he wasn't interested. He would tell me we would one day marry...then one day he denied ever saying that. His relationships with friends and girls were weird, not a lot of people close to him, but the ones that were were younger than him and also always felt like he was in relationships with them each.

And the work side was becoming so stressful--would kept putting more and more of the work on me to do, and if I gave him some work to do he would either get angry, tell me it was impossible to do, or just be difficult in ways that made no sense to me. And ultimately I would fix it all or do it all. Went on for three years like this. Insults, blame, resentment, anger, overreacting...I made excuses for all of that or thought maybe I was provoking it. And I am a smart, strong, positive person. I would never tolerate that from anyone else in my life, so why this? I went to a therapist for two months because I was feeling ways I'd never felt in my life. He spent more time looking into my childhood which, fine, but if he'd only focused on answering my question, "Why does he treat me this way," I could have saved time. A friend suggested Narcissism Disorder and I mentioned to therapist who finally started to address that, but it was online that I learned exactly what it was and that what I felt and went through was experienced by so many others. I felt so relieved and that helped my healing more than therapy. I am in the process of parting ways (work prevents a spontaneous cutoff) and have had minimal contact for two months. I haven't felt this good in what feels like an eternity. The day I walked away I expected to feel some remorse or like a limb was lost since it was my partner day after day for three years...but it was like it never existed, those years.

Do have a question tho: Since you don't want to engage a Narcissist, how do you "break up" with them since you know going in you'll be blamed and criticized. I would love to tell him all the real reasons, but when I used them from the heart to try to "fix" our situation over the years, they were all thrown back in my face negatively. So I know fewer words used is necessary but I also don't want to ensure I speak the truth. I also don't want to do more damaged to someone with a disease.

Taylor Love said...

Wow... As sad as it makes me to read this and realize who i have fallen in love with, it is a huge sigh of relief knowing i wasn't loosing my mind. My situation is a little different and pretty messed up. Not saying any worse, but just very very sad. I am 22 years old almost 23 and have been told majorityof my life im an old soul. My life is spent worrying about everyone else's happiness except mine. Totally live for others (which from research is perfect narcissistic bait) I couldn't have been a better target.
I fed right into everything an enabler does for an N. Anyways i met my boyfriend who will be 40 in 2 months (yes a little over a 17 year age difference) which to some may seem crazy, but if we all understand the N we can see how I was convinced i met my match. It is just now almost 8 months too late to discover what i am dealing with. (i am 8 months pregnant now. we have been dating for 2 years) and for someone who is so emotionally sensitive and needs a lover with compassion you can imagine this has been the worst 8 months of my whole life. The emotional and verbal abuse has been so unbelievably draining that i now have to open my eyes and "harden my heart" if im ever going to make it out of this pregnancy alive( not literally but i do feel like it sometimes). I have been begging a man for support and love and compassion he is unable to give. it was confusing for so long i didnt understand how there could be so much love and hate coming from one person. And all i did was continue to love him and be his rock. ( like i said perfect N bait). From the research i have been doing its sad to say this relationship doesn't seem like it is going to succeed at least for me. If i ever want to be happy in life i'm going to have to leave him, which is sad because i would want my son to have both his parents around, but not in an unhealthy way. I'm sorry for blabbing on it just feels so good to be able to say this as of course i could never to him. One of the things that does make most sense to me about him being an N, is he is an alcoholic and convinces himself otherwise. and ever since I have gotten pregnant he has built this confidence to up and leave me and go out because he knows now that i look pregnant he does not have to worry right now about me partying and getting attention from other guys (or whatever his screwed up head thinks, i didn't do that stuff before i was pregnant anyways) But i always tell him you would never be so bold and treat me like this if i wasn't pregnant. I'm sure part of the reason he was so adamant of keeping me was he looked at me as younger arm candy (which is total red flags of a N) Like i sad in the begging it saddens me to know the chances now of this relationship working out but at the same time, what a relief of figuring out what i am dealing with. Thank you for letting me vent. I cant begin to tell you what sitting here these past 8 months trying to figure out why me instead of why him. Now i finally did, 2 more months before i gain some sort of strength back untill then i will use the tools i have been given. And continue to REASEARCH!!! wish me luck.. and best to you all aswell.
T

Anonymous said...

Taylor Love- even though you are so young and in a painful awakening, while having a child growing in you- sounds like you are seeing clearly now. I will keep you in my thoughts... I imagine the coming months to be difficult, and I hope you put your child's needs above all else. There is such a pull back and forth with people who are N - it can consume many yrs of your life and do great damage. I hope you can see a good counselor for support through this. I did and it helped me gain the strength to make changes in my life away from an N boss for 10 yrs.
I have seen this age gap relationship w Ns (sorry) and the fallout for all involved.
I also will mention that through my own experience I know that although there is great hope for alcoholic recovery- it doesn't happen until the person sees they have a problem which can take a lifetime sometimes.
Stay strong and keep growing up like you are- learn and mature and be a good Mom. (Sorry for so much advice!) I just speak from an older perspective. There is too much pain and mess in children's lives that can be avoided when we awaken to the preciousness of a new life. I'm rooting for you!
Last bit of wisdom- if you have even a seed of faith- pursue a relationship with God. It will be your rock.

NRS said...

Thank you so much for this article. I was raised in a family that mom was narcissistic and dad was an alcoholic. I am 55 years old and once again a relative my cousin has gone to all lengths to turn my family against me. My mom was in a bad car accident so I had to re- open relationships that have always been volatile. It got so bad that I started googling what was happening and it always came to the narcissism family member web sites.It turns out I have been a scape goat all these years along with a few narcissistic behaviors, mild but there, of my own. I mostly suffer from being cut down and the person to blame for all these years. What you said about well all 10 steps really make a lot of sense and help me as you say to not pay attention to the words and get that stuff out of my head. In time I will heal whether they do or not. Thank you!

Anonymous said...

Reading all your stories I am confident my husband is an N. In April last year we were married, we had been together for 9 years by that stage and lived together for 5 of them we were 19 when we got together. Since then my life has been a nightmare he cheated on me last August only 4 months after being married, I don't know how but I knew in my gut that night so i tracked him on find my iphone and sure enough he wasn't where he said he was. He was so convincing telling me every lie he could think of making me sound like I was the crazy one. He finally admitted it in January this year after I found a text that he could not deny. I am the strong firey type that takes not shit from no one or so I thought. I can't seem to let go of his grip, he keeps pulling me in with his lies! One thing with him is I know him so well that he's a predicable N so I have caught him out on alot of lies but he feeds me your my best friend I love you I don't want to loose you but I need to be selfish right now. I get angry and block his number but can't help myself and I unblock him in a matter of hours. I cry every day and now have resorted to drinking just so my mind isn't always on him.

My mother is also an N thats why I think I accept his behaviour more tha normal people would. I have just cut my mum out of my life as I went to her for support and she ended up making the end of my marriage about her. I really don't have anyone to talk to. I would go into more detail about what he's done and what my mothers done but ill be here all day

Anonymous said...

I hope you have been strong for you and your baby boy, thankfully I'm not pregnant to my N I am married though. I have been told my whole life that I am and old soul too, most of my life I've given excuses to the N's in my life. Yes plural would you believe my mother my best friend and my husband. I wish you all the best for you and your son and hope that we both find the strength to leave pur N,s much love xx

Anonymous said...

Been married to a narcissist for 18 years. I didn't realize what was wrong with him until a few months ago when I figured out that his crazy rages were narcissistic rages/injury. I've been trying to mentally process this and accept it. My next step will be getting a therapist and an attorney. The guy is just repulsive. He's gotten worse over the last few years, the verbal abuse... the financial abuse...it's disgusting. I have to get out of this relationship. I have small children and I don't want them in this environment.

Ruby heart said...

At the age of 19 I married a (N). I was too young to know what was going on until at the age of twenty seven I found myself with none of my own clothes (he made me throw my clothes away and wear his because I looked like "a little slut" in my own.
By 29 when I'd finally left, I had no sense of self and I had nothing to my name. I lived in shelters and off of donations. The worst part was that I'd lost my identity.

A few years went by and he did what the (N) does and started to love bomb.
I got involved with him on a very limited basis.

A few more years ahead to now. He is still very limited in his knowledge of my daily life. He lies to me *constantly* and refers to himself as my "best friend"
He is really dragging me down but I need this-I need to feel loathing for him. I need to feel sick at the sight of him. That way I can break the addiction.